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This is a discussion on Night time shooting and flashlight techniques. within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; This link may be of interest: http://www.botac.com/sttrtali.html...
As a civilian I don't plan on doing any house clearings; I will call 911 if a problem. But on the street I may want to identify people near or approaching me, see if they are carrying weapons, ascertain if any people in the shadow and maybe blind or disorient them with light. For these uses I like a surefire I can draw with my weak hand. If it comes to shooting I figure the dark is my friend and with tritium night sight I really don't need a flashlight to shot accurately. Besides I doubt if I will be in a situation where it is totally dark, so once I ID people as hostile I should be able to keep track of their location. But I don't want to give them a bright, steady light to shoot at.
For a police officer who points a gun at most everyone whom he/she encounters in a house, I could see the use of a weapon mounted light. For a CCW permit holder, who doesn't point his gun at everyone in the dark, nor need to as it is probably a family member getting a drink in the middle of the night, I keep my Brinkman Maxfire in my jacket or pants. I use the light more as a light and less as a defensive light. Comes in handly when making deliveries at night.
Don't know the fancy teminolgoy for the technique I use but here goes: Weak hand holding flashlight (tail cap equipped) with forearm perpendicular to strong hand, forming a + when viewed from the top. I was trained in cop school this way. No constant ON mode. Just pulse. Pulse, move, pulse, move. The less time they see the light the better the chance they won't know where you are. Illuminate the hands and then the face. Check for weapons and then blind them with the light so they can see you, then make your move.
07/02 FFL/SOT since 2006
I carry just a small 2 AA flashlight on my belt similar to a maglight except it has a rubber thumb switch on the end for easy on easy off. I use it more for general use and just make sure I have fresh batteries in it. For low light Iíve found the CT laser grips to be more useful.
livin in the woods...feelin mighty good
That sounds like the "Harries" method.
Guys, let's not forget:
- Just because you have a WML, doesn't mean you have to point your gun at someone to use it. You can take it off, or use a supplemental handheld.
- A WML seems to be a non-issue on a long gun, i.e. M-4 or shotgun although it presents the same issues.
- If you have a WML in addition to a handheld, you have two lights - "One is none, two is one".
- You can do more with a WML than with a handheld. Don't forget, the WML can be mounted or removed quickly and easily.
- In a known threat situation, you could use both lights simeltaneously.
- While we may not be faced with clearing a building per se, we may need to escape one or reach isolated loved ones.
I would clear my house and have done so in search of possible BGs after fighting off an intruder about ten years ago. I didn't have a WML then, but I wish I did. I'm getting the H&K UTL for my H&K USP45 and it will become my standard dedicated home gun and for trips. But at home, right now it's just me and the wife and the two Newfoundland pups. So that bump in the night when the pups and wife are all in the master bedroom is a problem. I'll take care of it. I've been trained to do so. I don't dial 9-1-1, until after the fact. Somebody has to clean up the mess.Originally Posted by jack76590
Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.
1. Two different arguments. Long guns are not concealed, are not EDC, and SUCK for clearing houses anyway! Before anyone says it... MOUNT training relies on numbers, slicing several angles at once, and aggression. Things you do not have by yourself. The long arm in solo house clearing is just begging to be taken from you.
2. Two lights ARE better than one. I carry two lights (Surefire A2 & Fenix 1LP) but neither will tell you that I have a concealed gun on me when I use it for it's normal purpose.
3. It's more crap to add to the Bat-Belt.
4. No one is questioning their superiority over hand-helds, just their practicality for the EDC CHL type.
5. Some toys are hard to resist.
6. I never sold my M6 when I quit the road, and I put it on my G17 with slide locked back on a loaded mag next to the bed every-night because it IS the ultimate house clearing rig. I have a shotgun in the room also, but would not want to clear the house with it. It has a WML also.
Hey man, I'm with you all they way on the long gun in the house deal. Although training and technique can minimize take away. My real point abou the long gun is that no one seems to have any problem with a WML on along gun but seem to with a handgun - what's the difference at home?Originally Posted by oregonshooter
I was thinking more of a person clearing their house either to reach a loved one, or escaping from the house if that is advantageous.
"Herding" the kids, wife, and dog, etc. could be esp. difficult while trying to manage a handheld and a gun.
I saw a LEO and had to keep looking at his holster and finally had to ask if he had a light on his handgun; he did; the holster looked pretty compact, I was a little surprised.
I never CCW with a WML on my gun, but with a well designed holster, and a X200 WML, I believe it could be done pretty well.
OK, I gotta ask, why was the slide locked back on your Glock for over night?
If a guy carries his CCW in a holster with the light ON IT already for EDC... more power too him!!! That is a great setup. I can't conceal one myself.
My issue is with having to put one on when you need it (most likely won't know when, or have time) and that using it off the gun as a light is a dead give away that you are armed.
If it's mounted on the gun 24/7 and you use another light for EDC then that's cool, although very bulky.
For the tiny amount of benefit it gives for EDC it's not worth the trade off in concealability for me.
Your example of "herding" etc. I totally agree with and why I have one for home.
The slide is locked back because I want an extra step to complete before shooting when I have just woken from a deep sleep. Leaving the mag in does not give a chance of fumbling a "load" at 0300 and the slide back lets my brain realize I need to load, verses having an empty chamber.
Maybe the slide dropping might make a person think twice about coming into the bedroom, but it's not done for that reason, just to give time to wake up.
WML on long guns are not an issue because they don't:
1. give away that you have a gun, it's obvious.
2. are offensive in nature, the WML is no different that having a scope mounted to better it's offensive nature
Well that's refreshing to hear somebody admit that we need a bit of waking up exercise. I've been leaving the chamber empty for the very same reason. Having the slide closed does raise the possibility of not remembering to load, esp. at 0300. I may start doing that myself.Originally Posted by oregonshooter
In my home, the WML on my handgun doesn't give away that I have a gun either, because if I think I need my gun it's gonna be in my hand, not in my pajamas.Originally Posted by oregonshooter
At home, my handgun is no more or less offensive or defensive than a long gun would be.
It's good to see distinctions made between home defense and street mindset, between military/law enforcement and citizen self defense.
IMHO calling 911 from the safe room and letting the doggie do the clearing (their eyes and senses don't need any help) is safer than running around with any kind of a light looking for trouble in an environment you know intimately anyway. Night sights should suffice but cover will be nice. In the house, darkness and quiet stealth may rank next to cover as an asset. BTW the action of the thumb safety has brought me to elevated consciousness without the worry of a misfeed.
On the street there seldom is total darkness, just uneven or spotty lighting. Here again night sights are thumbs up, but a light in the off hand may be enough to preemptively disuade the maldoer, but not the determined adversary. The pulse of the muzzle flash will have to do.
Liberty, Property, or Death - Jonathan Gardner's powder horn inscription 1776
Tu ne cede malis, sed contra audentior ito.
("Do not give in to evil but proceed ever more boldly against it.")
-Virgil, Aeneid, vi, 95
I like the dog idea. Unfortunately not all have dogs or dogs suitable for the task.
There can be times, a power outage, when things can be much darker than normal.
Sometimes we won't be able to stay put; we may have to reach a loved one in another room.
It has been said that the small click of a safety being activated/deactivated is deafening when you don't want to give away your location.
I think the idea behind the slide locked back is reasonable; a disadvantage, yes, but, perhaps it's error on the safe side in that it makes us have to think and do before the gun becomes operational.