VA Gold Cup: Carry or No Carry?

This is a discussion on VA Gold Cup: Carry or No Carry? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; A question for folks in Northern Virginia. I am trying to decide whether or not the Virginia Gold Cup race is off-limits for carry. It ...

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Thread: VA Gold Cup: Carry or No Carry?

  1. #1
    Distinguished Member Array kazzaerexys's Avatar
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    VA Gold Cup: Carry or No Carry?

    A question for folks in Northern Virginia. I am trying to decide whether or not the Virginia Gold Cup race is off-limits for carry. It is an outdoor venue; during the races there are so-called tavern tents on the premises that sell alcohol. Looking at the laws, though, I get this:
    Code of Virginia
    § 18.2-308. Personal protection; carrying concealed weapons; when lawful to carry.

    [...]

    J3. No person shall carry a concealed handgun onto the premises of any restaurant or club as defined in §4.1-100 for which a license to sell and serve alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption has been granted by the Virginia Alcoholic Beverage Control Board under Title 4.1 of the Code of Virginia[...]
    The actual definitions of "club" and "restaurant" in §4.1-100 do not seem to apply, at least as my reading of it goes.

    I have no idea whether Great Meadow, the actual venue, is posted, but in Virginia that just means I have to leave if asked or be charged with trespassing.

    Opinions?
    “What is a moderate interpretation of [the Constitution]? Halfway between what it says and [...] what you want it to say?” —Justice Antonin Scalia

    SIG: P220R SS Elite SAO, P220R SAO, P220R Carry, P226R Navy, P226, P239/.40S&W, P2022/.40S&W; GSR 5", P6.

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    Senior Member Array f8lranger4x4's Avatar
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    That's a tough one I would talk with your local commonwealth attorny. Since he would be the one you would be dealing with if caught and it in fact against the law. See what his point of view is on it.

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    It is an outdoor venue; during the races there are so-called tavern tents on the premises that sell alcohol.
    I would say as long as you stay out of the tents you would be within the law. I don't see where it would be any different than a hotel lobby with an adjoining restaurant that serves alcohol, a mall with a restaurant inside that serves. As long as you don't enter where it is being served your good.

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    +1 for archer51

    The club is private property. The ABC license would be temporary for that event, most likely. As long as you stay out of any building serving alcohol, and stay out of the tents (see Designated Area §4.1-100) you should be good.

    As you said, it is private property, so if asked to leave, you would have to.

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    Member Array woodstock's Avatar
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    Re: Asking the Commonwealth's Attorney

    Quote Originally Posted by f8lranger4x4 View Post
    That's a tough one I would talk with your local commonwealth attorney. Since he would be the one you would be dealing with if caught and it in fact against the law. See what his point of view is on it.
    I kinda went this route one time and it took months and months to get a useful answer.

    I first tried getting an opinion from the Virginia Attorney General's office on whether the VA National Guard run "Commonwealth Challenge" program, and its activities, would be considered a school when considering concealed carry. The reply from the AG's office was (paraphrasing here) that I am just a citizen and the AG is the lawyer for the governor and the state. They don't give out opinions to citizens. Yes, I do pay taxes that pay the AG's salary...

    So I went to my state delegate and he was very helpful and supportive. He requested an opinion from the AG and he got a different answer - about 5 months later, and months too late for me.

    If anyone has occasion to interact with the Commonwealth Challenge program, they are NOT a school according to the AG.

    The Challenge program takes in kids who have quit school, or been kicked out, and puts them in a residential "boot camp" program where they take classes, learn self-discipline and other important skills, and earn a GED. They must be willing volunteers, must complete the residential portion, and have a job to go to upon completion. Many go to the military, which can be a good thing.

    The Commonwealth Challenge program is conducted by the VA National Guard, there are similar programs in other states, and is located on Camp Pendleton in Virginia Beach.

    I also contacted the man in charge of Camp Pendleton and asked what the policy is on personal firearms on the camp. First he asked why I thought I needed one and I pointed out driving all the way across the state and staying in motels in strange areas. Then I pointed out that the camp is state property and the legislature has reserved the right to make all decisions about possession of handguns statewide. He grudgingly gave me "permission".

    You can certainly ask the Commonwealth's Attorney; Great meadow is in Fauquier County. Good luck.
    The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good.

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    Member Array heckler22150's Avatar
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    Don't enter the beer tent.

    You might also want to check the event website to see if guns are prohibited - I'd be surprised if they weren't. However, carrying on private property that disallows firearms is "just" a trespass charge in VA.

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    Distinguished Member Array kazzaerexys's Avatar
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    I did actually check the web sites for Great Meadow and VA Gold Cup and neither said anything about firearms. The Great Meadow is a non-profit and does have memberships, so it might be considered a private club, except that it doesn't have a standing ABC license. Based on my understanding, then, I am leaning towards carrying. If I find the place is posted when I actually arrive, I can use the CoM lockbox in the car, I suppose...

    Thanks for the responses!
    “What is a moderate interpretation of [the Constitution]? Halfway between what it says and [...] what you want it to say?” —Justice Antonin Scalia

    SIG: P220R SS Elite SAO, P220R SAO, P220R Carry, P226R Navy, P226, P239/.40S&W, P2022/.40S&W; GSR 5", P6.

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    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Kazzaer,

    I would encourage you to contact the VA State Police firearms board or what ever they are called (I forget off hand).
    I've done so, in VA, for similar difficult to interpret questions in the past and found them to be completely understanding as well as helpful and willfully able to cite and detail VA law by letter as stated and to interpret intent.
    Now of course they are not attorneys and cannot disseminate legal advice.

    I don't know if she still works there but my favorite POC there was a lady named 'Nancy' who was a manager there. She helped me out several years back with getting my resident VA CHP to start (a long story of local LEO delays and incompetence) and then gain when I was having problems with buying two handguns at once as well as two carry questions I'd had similar to your own.

    IMHO the VA State Police CHP licensing bureau in Richmond, VA are top notch and have been the best such group of persons I've worked/dealt with across multiple states.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

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