This is a discussion on Sign Question within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I was out with the family on thursday night and we went the taco bell on garners ferry road in columbia sc and as I ...
April 12th, 2009 10:46 AM
I was out with the family on thursday night and we went the taco bell on garners ferry road in columbia sc and as I walked in I saw a NO WEAPONS sign and it had the universal no gun picture but no showing of no concealed weapons allowed so is this a vaild sign to bar me from carrying in this establishment or not.
XD .45, Glock 23, Mossberg 590A, M&P 15 Rossi 641, RIA 1911
If You Want To Know The Mind Of A Man Listen To His Words
April 12th, 2009 10:59 AM
A) Know your state laws concerning signage and display
B) Let your conscience be your guide
That's what I do where I live.
April 12th, 2009 11:00 AM
You'll have to check your state's laws. In my state that sign would only mean that if I were "made" and asked to leave, I would have to or I would be trespassing.
April 12th, 2009 11:37 AM
+1 to Ram Rod.
Originally Posted by Ram Rod
"Without fear there can be no Courage!"
April 12th, 2009 12:17 PM
Don't see many around these parts so I usually don't bother looking for them.
Its a shame that youth is wasted on the young.
April 12th, 2009 01:43 PM
First up; you should obey the law because in many states, violating that sign would constitute trespassing. For me personally; unless I’m printing like' Dolly Parton, I may ignore the sign in some non-governmental establishments. Again, for me it’s simply too much of a hassle to return to the car, remove the gun, secure it safely, and return for a damn taco.
“Monsters are real and so are ghosts. They live inside of us, and sometimes they win.”
~ Stephen King
April 12th, 2009 01:49 PM
in michigan if there is a no guns sign it means they wont get my money and i havent seen a sign yet i hear a lot of places have them from others but i havent seen one myself
NRA sence 2003 Colt defender Taurus .357 mag
Taurus tcp x box gamer tag mathewsman
April 12th, 2009 03:43 PM
wow, what do you carry?
Originally Posted by Saber
I'll have to take a look, don't think I've been in that one.
Originally Posted by XD 45
BLUF: Invalid sign.
GrassRoots GunRights SC member
Walther PPS .40 / KelTec P3AT
April 12th, 2009 08:29 PM
From the SLED website:
SECTION 23-31-235. Sign requirements.
(A) Notwithstanding any other provision of this article, any requirement of or allowance for the posting of signs prohibiting the carrying of a concealable weapon upon any premises shall only be satisfied by a sign expressing the prohibition in both written language interdict and universal sign language.
(B) All signs must be posted at each entrance into a building where a concealable weapon permit holder is prohibited from carrying a concealable weapon and must be:
(1) clearly visible from outside the building;
(2) eight inches wide by twelve inches tall in size;
(3) contain the words “NO CONCEALABLE WEAPONS ALLOWED” in black one inch tall uppercase type at the bottom of the sign and centered between the lateral edges of the sign;
(4) contain a black silhouette of a handgun inside a circle seven inches in diameter with a diagonal line that runs from the lower left to the upper right at a forty five degree angle from the horizontal;
(5) a diameter of a circle; and
(6) placed not less than forty inches and not more than sixty inches from the bottom of the building’s entrance door.
(C) If the premises where concealable weapons are prohibited does not have doors, then the signs contained in subsection (A) must be:
(1) thirty six inches wide by forty eight inches tall in size;
(2) contain the words “NO CONCEALABLE WEAPONS ALLOWED” in black three inch tall uppercase type at the bottom of the sign and centered between the lateral edges of the sign;
(3) contain a black silhouette of a handgun inside a circle thirty four inches in diameter with a diagonal line that is two inches wide and runs from the lower left to the upper right at a forty five degree angle from the horizontal and must be a diameter of a circle whose circumference is two inches wide;
(4) placed not less than forty inches and not more than ninety six inches above the ground;
(5) posted in sufficient quantities to be clearly visible from any point of entry onto the premises.
These are the official requirements for a posted sign in SC. Very few, if any that I've ever seen meet these requirements to the letter. We had a long discussion about this at my CWP class. The instructor, who is a police officer. said that if the sign doesn't comply 100% with the law, it's not a "legal" sign. That being said, no one has yet to be the first one to get in trouble for carrying where not allowed and challenge the legal definition. It's your call, but I think I would make darn sure I was properly "concealed", and go on about my business.
April 12th, 2009 10:41 PM
Proper sign means exactly that, "Proper Sign"....AND....Concealed means exactly that, "Concealed". I'll have a Chalupa Supreme w/extra meat please!!!
Sometimes in life you have to stand your ground. It's a hard lesson to learn and even most adults don't get it, but in the end only I can be responsible for my life. If faced with any type of adversity, only I can overcome it. Waiting for someone else to take responsibility is a long fruitless wait.
April 13th, 2009 12:08 AM
I am going to play DA or Judge here. Did you understand the intent of the sign? If yes, then you are guilty of violating state law - please turn in your permit/license. If no, then please turn in your permit or license as you will never understand intent.
Originally Posted by XD 45
I know people will say you can argue the "proper signage" in a court of law. But you just admitted that you understood the signage, but are looking for that "loophole". I say if they do not want you to carry on their propery, honor that wish by taking your dining $$ somewhere else. My business, my rules - maybe not smart rules - but mine none the less.
April 13th, 2009 01:10 AM
Most signs here in SC that I've seen never meet the state requirement. If the sign on the entrance says no weapons allowed it's just their way of saying please if you don't mind I would rather you not bring anything in here. If they honestly cared they would have just bought a sign that meet the state requirement. Also, I would think if someone did want to go to court over it what kindof case would they have. Sign does not comply with state law.
I carry everywhere I can legally and go by what the law books say. Thats all that is required of you is to follow the LAW.
"Then He said to them ... and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one."
-- Luke 22:36
April 13th, 2009 01:21 AM
Why even waste your time wondering if the sign is legal? If they don't want you packing in their store why do you want to give them your business?
April 13th, 2009 03:47 AM
Don't know anything about SC, but here in Nevada the sign is meaningless. If I were to be made, the manager or his/her representative could ask me to leave. I wouldn't be arrested for trespassing UNLESS I FAILED TO LEAVE WHEN ASKED. I completely ignore these signs here, and disarm only for sites where carry is prohibited by law. Heck, I was cashing an unemployment check in the Suncoast Hotel and Casino. I was dressed for gym, and carried my XD45 in a fanny pack. Somehow, the zipper made it almost all of the way around, and as I was leaving, and passing 3 security guards, my XD fell out of the fanny pack and landed on the floor. I quickly picked it up and put it back, but of course the guards had seen it. No problem, though. I showed them my CCW permit, and since I was on my way out anyway, they didn't say anything. No "Don't come back here with a gun speech", and I've been back many times, sometimes using the fanny pack.
Originally Posted by Saber
April 13th, 2009 09:20 AM
DrJ and serveral others have hit the nail squarely on the head!
Know the law you are required to follow and understand the intent of that law.
For properties that post, why bother spending your money there to begin with? THEY DO NOT WANT YOUR BUSINESS, even if the sign is not in compliance with the law.
Personally, Id find another place to do my business.
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