Alcohol / Vehicle / Pistol question, attn LEO also...... - Page 2

Alcohol / Vehicle / Pistol question, attn LEO also......

This is a discussion on Alcohol / Vehicle / Pistol question, attn LEO also...... within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by NavyLT Why locked? Did I say locked? Oops I did say locked. Yeah thats just wrong. I shall correct that pronto. I ...

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Thread: Alcohol / Vehicle / Pistol question, attn LEO also......

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array AllAmerican's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLT View Post
    Why locked?
    Did I say locked? Oops I did say locked. Yeah thats just wrong. I shall correct that pronto. I have no idea why I typed that LOL

    Thanks for that.
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  2. #17
    mkh
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    Distinguished Member Array mkh's Avatar
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    Unless you feel safe putting your life into your girlfriend's hands then I suggest you don't get intoxicated.

  3. #18
    VIP Member Array havegunjoe's Avatar
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    It looks like under Florida law you may be OK doing what you are doing. I am not an expert on that but let's suppose on the way home you need that gun for protection. You either rely on your girlfriend's training to protect the both of you or you do it yourself while under the influence. Now let's say you had to shoot someone to protect the both of you. Do you think it's going to influence a jury in a positive way that you are legally drunk no matter what the law allows? Just some food for thought.
    DEMOCRACY IS TWO WOLVES AND A LAMB VOTING ON WHAT TO HAVE FOR LUNCH. LIBERTY IS A WELL ARMED LAMB CONtestING THE VOTE.

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  4. #19
    Member Array CowboyKen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by havegunjoe View Post
    It looks like under Florida law you may be OK doing what you are doing. I am not an expert on that but let's suppose on the way home you need that gun for protection. You either rely on your girlfriend's training to protect the both of you or you do it yourself while under the influence. Now let's say you had to shoot someone to protect the both of you. Do you think it's going to influence a jury in a positive way that you are legally drunk no matter what the law allows? Just some food for thought.
    Can you cite a case where this became a factor in an otherwise good SD shoot? I believe, as I have said before, that this is urban legend.

    A good shoot is a good shoot and legal behavior is legal behavior. Having a drink or not has nothing to do with it.

    Ken

  5. #20
    VIP Member Array havegunjoe's Avatar
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    No I can't...

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyKen View Post
    Can you cite a case where this became a factor in an otherwise good SD shoot? I believe, as I have said before, that this is urban legend.

    A good shoot is a good shoot and legal behavior is legal behavior. Having a drink or not has nothing to do with it.

    Ken
    I simply stated that it could become a factor in the minds of jury members. Lots of "good shoots" have ended up in court. I would want everything possible going my way. If I were a prosecutor I would certainly bring up the impaired condition of the shooter and so would a civil lawyer in a case like this. Something like 80+% of all self-defense claims fail. I wouldn't want to give them any more ammunition than they already have.
    DEMOCRACY IS TWO WOLVES AND A LAMB VOTING ON WHAT TO HAVE FOR LUNCH. LIBERTY IS A WELL ARMED LAMB CONtestING THE VOTE.

    Certified Instructor for Minnesota Carry Permit
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  6. #21
    Member Array CowboyKen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by havegunjoe View Post
    I simply stated that it could become a factor in the minds of jury members. Lots of "good shoots" have ended up in court. I would want everything possible going my way. If I were a prosecutor I would certainly bring up the impaired condition of the shooter and so would a civil lawyer in a case like this. Something like 80+% of all self-defense claims fail. I wouldn't want to give them any more ammunition than they already have.
    WOW!!! "80+% of all self-defense claims fail."

    Can you tell me where that stat comes from?

    As a Certified Instructor for Minnesota Carry Permit, NRA Pistol and Personal Protection Insrtuctor and Utah Permit Certified Instructor you must have a source for that statistic and I like to learn more about why such a high percentage fail.

    Ken

  7. #22
    New Member Array Black Eagle's Avatar
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    Alcohol and sowing your oats is much overrated. Being able to soberly and properly handing your firearm can never be underrated. The choice is yours.

  8. #23
    VIP Member Array havegunjoe's Avatar
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    So Cowboy, do you have a problem with me?

    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyKen View Post
    WOW!!! "80+% of all self-defense claims fail."

    Can you tell me where that stat comes from?

    As a Certified Instructor for Minnesota Carry Permit, NRA Pistol and Personal Protection Insrtuctor and Utah Permit Certified Instructor you must have a source for that statistic and I like to learn more about why such a high percentage fail.

    Ken
    No I can't provide you with a link. I have a written report somewhere at home that was part of a MN study done a few years ago as I recall. I'm not going to spend any time digging it up for you so if you don't want to believe me, don't. It's after all a free country.

    I think this claim can be pretty easily verified if you pay any attention what-so-ever to the average thugs claim of self-defense that they make when they are arrested. They almost always claim self-defense but they usually don't end up meeting whatever local criteria is required for that claim to succeed.

    Also if you want to drink and carry a gun go right ahead. I just don't think it would take much to convince a jury that in your impaired state when you shot that attacker you acted in a "reasonable" manner.


    I'm sorry if I offended you somehow which is the impression I am getting from your tone. I can't always provide cast-in-stone documentation. If that's what you need sorry.
    DEMOCRACY IS TWO WOLVES AND A LAMB VOTING ON WHAT TO HAVE FOR LUNCH. LIBERTY IS A WELL ARMED LAMB CONtestING THE VOTE.

    Certified Instructor for Minnesota Carry Permit
    NRA Pistol and Personal Protection Insrtuctor
    Utah Permit Certified Instructor

  9. #24
    Member Array CowboyKen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by havegunjoe View Post
    No I can't provide you with a link. I have a written report somewhere at home that was part of a MN study done a few years ago as I recall. I'm not going to spend any time digging it up for you so if you don't want to believe me, don't. It's after all a free country.

    I think this claim can be pretty easily verified if you pay any attention what-so-ever to the average thugs claim of self-defense that they make when they are arrested. They almost always claim self-defense but they usually don't end up meeting whatever local criteria is required for that claim to succeed.

    Also if you want to drink and carry a gun go right ahead. I just don't think it would take much to convince a jury that in your impaired state when you shot that attacker you acted in a "reasonable" manner.


    I'm sorry if I offended you somehow which is the impression I am getting from your tone. I can't always provide cast-in-stone documentation. If that's what you need sorry.
    No, I am not offended and nothing about this is a personal issue for me.

    I am amazed though, that someone, with your credentials, would make the assertions you have (both about claimed self defense shootings and the result of an otherwise good shoot if you have had a drink) with nothing to support them.

    But as you said, "It's after all a free country."

    Ken

    p.s.; I tried and could not "easily verify" your assertion, and it looks like you are not going to.

  10. #25
    Distinguished Member Array bandit383's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black Eagle View Post
    Alcohol and sowing your oats is much overrated. Being able to soberly and properly handing your firearm can never be underrated. The choice is yours.

    Spot on...sounds like wanting to have the cake and eat it too.

    Rick

  11. #26
    Distinguished Member Array bandit383's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CowboyKen View Post
    Can you cite a case where this became a factor in an otherwise good SD shoot? I believe, as I have said before, that this is urban legend.

    A good shoot is a good shoot and legal behavior is legal behavior. Having a drink or not has nothing to do with it.

    Ken
    Uh...how about the NY Cop that defended himself in the parking lot after a "few" drinks. Or the Seattle fire fighter and cop that got into a bar fight with some bikers at Sturgis. Urban legend...nope...but I love cheerios.

    Rick

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by bandit383 View Post
    Uh...how about the NY Cop that defended himself in the parking lot after a "few" drinks. Or the Seattle fire fighter and cop that got into a bar fight with some bikers at Sturgis. Urban legend...nope...but I love cheerios.

    Rick
    I don't know about the Turgis case, was it a good shoot other then the booze? But the NYC Cop, was it his one?

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/17/ny...rssnyt&emc=rss

    By Wednesday morning, the detective was fully exonerated. Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg and the police unions rallied to his defense, as did the editorial pages of the city’s two main tabloid newspapers, and Mr. Kelly not only restored Detective Davison to full duty, he praised his actions.

    “At grave personal risk, Detective Ivan Davison took appropriate and courageous police action to end an imminent threat of death or serious injury to himself and others,” Mr. Kelly said in a statement, identifying the officer by name for the first time. “He demonstrated what many have come to expect of New York City police officers, on duty or off — that is, selfless dedication to duty.”

    He was exonerated and called a hero. Oh yes, the cop was legally drunk.

    What about the Winnemucca bar shooting: Victims Released; No Charges Filed Against Reno Man In Winnemucca Shootings / Northern Nevada, Reno, Lake Tahoe, News Now

    Ken

  13. #28
    VIP Member Array miklcolt45's Avatar
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    And now, back to our regularly scheduled OP...

    The law is clear. The gun can be in the glove box or console no matter what condition you are in. If you use it lawfully in self-defense, you are good to go.

    Now, another VERY important thought. You said you have your CWFL, but it does not appear as if you know the laws in FL. That needs to change...the sooner the better.

    Pick up Gutmacher's Florida Firearms Law. Read it. Read it again. It could keep you from being the GF for some guy named Bubba. It is part of being a responsible firearms owner.

    Don't delay. Do this for you, your family, your fiance, and the rest of the firearms community.
    Last edited by miklcolt45; April 17th, 2009 at 10:42 PM. Reason: clarity
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose. - Jim Elliott

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  14. #29
    Senior Member Array MilitaryPower's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLT View Post
    It is not illegal for you to have access to the gun while under the influence of alcohol:

    790.151 Using firearm while under the influence of alcoholic beverages, chemical substances, or controlled substances; penalties.--

    (1) As used in ss. 790.151-790.157, to "use a firearm" means to discharge a firearm or to have a firearm readily accessible for immediate discharge.

    (2) For the purposes of this section, "readily accessible for immediate discharge" means loaded and in a person's hand.

    (3) It is unlawful and punishable as provided in subsection (4) for any person who is under the influence of alcoholic beverages, any chemical substance set forth in s. 877.111, or any substance controlled under chapter 893, when affected to the extent that his or her normal faculties are impaired, to use a firearm in this state.

    (4) Any person who violates subsection (3) commits a misdemeanor of the second degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082 or s. 775.083.

    (5) This section does not apply to persons exercising lawful self-defense or defense of one's property.

    Now, the act of you placing the loaded gun in the glovebox, while intoxicated, would be illegal for the period of time that you had the loaded gun in your hand. She should do that.
    Spot on. Just leave it in the console.
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  15. #30
    New Member Array theparanorm's Avatar
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    My System

    My social life seems and tends to be very spontaneous. If I am carrying and I begin to think... "hrm...been a long week and I would love a few strong ones", I have come up with a brief and simple plan.

    This plan arose from stupidity on my part. I vowed to never let it happen again. If I am able, I will lock up in the vehicle. If not, I separate the magazine from the firearm and hand it off to someone else. Much like the passing off of keys when you know you should not drive. I will pass the magazine off and remove the chambered round to either my wife or a good friend of mine who is also an avid firearms user. I can get the mag and keys back in the morning.

    An example of the pass off plan: We were at a beach fire/party one night. Pretty far from any vehicles. I was not initially planning on drinking much if any...but things change. I became a little intoxicated and before continuing, I passed the magazine off to a friend along with my keys then re-holstered the very safe and unloaded firearm (paperweight). We stepped away from the group and still handled the firearm in a safe manner while unloading it. My ride was a designated and sober driver.

    This is a very rare situation. I am in my early 30's...and married with kids. I only drink in this manner maybe 2-5 times a year if that.

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