ccw- cherokee indian reservation - Page 2

ccw- cherokee indian reservation

This is a discussion on ccw- cherokee indian reservation within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Precision Can you please provide some documentation to validate this. I have a copy of Florida "No Carry" locations on my desk ...

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Thread: ccw- cherokee indian reservation

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Precision View Post
    Can you please provide some documentation to validate this. I have a copy of Florida "No Carry" locations on my desk and it says NOTHING about that. Which as we all no doesn't mean it isn't true.
    Neither does it say anything about Russia, China, Mexico, or Canada. They are all foreign countries...so are Indian Reservations (sort of).
    Be very careful about CCW on any reservations...check local tribal laws prior to carry there.
    Failure to heed tribal laws may cause you to make a large contribution towards the local indian educations program.

    Stay armed...good luck on tribal lands...stay safe!
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  2. #17
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    what kind of passports are issued from these tribal countries?

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gregor View Post
    Federal Law prohibits any kind of weapon on any reservation. The ruling is like that concerning National Parks.
    If you go to that area, you might want to check out the Kilmer Memorial Forest. It is awesome. (no weapons though)!
    I hate to burst your bubble here, but that's not correct.

    I've carried weapons and hunted on tribal lands. It's up to each individual tribe, as they are, as previously noted, seperate individual nation states.

    Biker

  4. #19
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    Glad you brought this up

    Quote Originally Posted by rapettitt View Post
    what kind of passports are issued from these tribal countries?
    Glad you brought this up. Americans of Indian heritage whether born on a reservation or elsewhere are US Citizens. They are entitled to US Passports.

    The assertion that these locals are the equivalent of a foreign country doesn't hold. I suspect some of these ideas were sort of kinda true at one time but no longer are correct and the reservations aren't as starkly delineated as one would think.

    "An Indian reservation is an area of land managed by a Native American tribe under the United States Department of the Interior's Bureau of Indian Affairs. Because Native American tribes have limited national sovereignty, laws on tribal lands vary from the surrounding area. These laws can permit legal casinos on reservations, which attract tourists."

    Note two things about the above description---"limited national sovereignty," whatever that means, and "an area of land managed by a Native American tribe under the United States Department of the Interior's Bureau of Indian affairs.

    That doesn't describe a sovereign nation!!!!! There is no country elsewhere that has "limited national sovereignty," or is managed by a Bureau within a Department of the Executive Branch of the United States.

    I

  5. #20
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    I guess someone missed the words 'sort of' in my description of 'reservation'...
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  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by BikerRN View Post
    I hate to burst your bubble here, but that's not correct.

    I've carried weapons and hunted on tribal lands. It's up to each individual tribe, as they are, as previously noted, seperate individual nation states.

    Biker
    I may be off base here but I fail to see how a reservation can meet the requirements of a nation state and find the comparisons to say carrying in China to be not at all relevant. Another poster made a comment about passports that was taken in jest but does highlight the lack of the qualities which define a nation state.

    I am naive to the outcome but if I as a citizen of the USA become detained on "Indian land" for a crime, am I not turned over to either federal or local officials?

  7. #22
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    Indian Tribes typically have their own police forces if they are big enough, if I were you I'd make a phone call.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by PNUT View Post
    Indian Tribes typically have their own police forces if they are big enough, if I were you I'd make a phone call.
    I don't think you got my point, does one go to the jail of the Cherokee nation state or do the federal police of the USA or the local police of whichever US county "contains" the reservation get called to take the suspect to their facility? Of course the tribes have a peace keeping force but what happens after detainment really defines the line between a true nation state and a grandfathered exception and is why the Mexico / Canada / China comparison is failing.

    As I've said, I may be naive to this but I doubt the answer is the US citizen gets convicted in a Cherokee court and does time in a Cherokee prison.

  9. #24
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    I can tell you from being a LEO with jurisdiction that butts up to the Cherokee res that the only two law enforcement agencies that have powers are the CPD, and the FBI. Cherokee does have its own court system. However, I do believe they can also have them in federal court if they so desire. Cherokee also has their own detention center for housing prisoners.
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  10. #25
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    It's incorrect to say that reservations are a separate country...what would make more sense would be to say they are like separate states. They are independent jurisdictions within the US.
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  11. #26
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    What GWRedDragon said.

    I'm 1/4 Cherokee myself and, in the 1980s, spent some time getting to know cousins in eastern Oklahoma. I also took a sociology class that covered the legal status of the American Indian tribes and reservations. Because of the complexities of the law surrounding reservations, the best approach is to check with the reservation sheriff or police department and ask what the rules are. Then, follow those rules when you're on reservation.

    For those who want to know more, the legal position of American Indian tribes, tribal governments, and reservations is a twisted, complex mess. It is perhaps best illustrated by the early 20th century term "domestic dependent nation", which was applied to Indian tribes that had not undergone "reapportionment", or distribution of tribal land to its individual members, in the early 1900s. That term is, of course, internally contradictory. IMHO so are the laws regarding American Indian tribes and their members.

    As various people here have commented, the limitations on tribal sovereignty in this country are not limitations that can exist on a truly sovereign independent nation. Indian tribes do not have jurisdiction over homicides on reservation: they are handled by the FBI. Indian tribes do not make their own foreign policy. They cannot raise an army. They have limited authority to tax, similar to the authority of states. They are, quite simply, *not* sovereign nations and it's nuts to pretend otherwise.

    On the other side of the debate, American Indian tribes do have considerably more independent authority over their tribal lands than any other non-state organization in the United States. The states have severely limited authority over reservation lands; they don't collect taxes there and in general can't tell a reservation what its laws should be. That's why you have gambling on tribal lands in states that otherwise ban or severely limit gambling. That's why liquor laws on many reservations are far stricter than elsewhere. (The problems of alcoholism among American Indians are well documented.) Laws regulating hunting, fishing, and other outdoor activities are separate from and often completely different from state laws. A hunting or fishing license for the state will often (usually, out west) not apply on a reservation, which may issue its own permits or simply not allow you to hunt or fish there.

    So what should honest, ordinary Americans do when on a reservation? Just what we'd do when visiting a different city or state; find out if there's anything we need to know in advance by asking those who do know. :-)

  12. #27
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    Additional useful info...

    What is the legal status of American Indian and Alaska Native tribes?

    Article 1, Section 8 of the United States Constitution vests Congress, and by extension the Executive and Judicial branches of our government, with the authority to engage in relations with the tribes, thereby firmly placing tribes within the constitutional fabric of our nation. When the governmental authority of tribes was first challenged in the 1830's, U. S. Supreme Court Chief Justice John Marshall articulated the fundamental principle that has guided the evolution of federal Indian law to the present: That tribes possess a nationhood status and retain inherent powers of self-government.

    Source - The U.S. Department of the Interior, Bureau of Indian Affairs
    Indian Affairs - FAQs
    Additional BIA agency information and contact sources can be found at; Indian Affairs - Home

    Additional legal information in general can be found at;
    * Reservations of Right: An Introduction to Indian Law
    * Harvard Law Review Forum - DOUBLE BIND: INDIAN NATIONS v. THE SUPREME COURT by Joseph William Singer
    * Native American Law Questions and Answers for all locations at LawGuru.com

    While a specific example of a First Nation legal declaration as related to applicable lands can be found at; White Mountain Apache Tribe Game and Fish Code

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    "So what should honest, ordinary Americans do when on a reservation? Just what we'd do when visiting a different city or state; find out if there's anything we need to know in advance by asking those who do know." - Sakenko
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  13. #28
    Senior Member Array ronwill's Avatar
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    While I strongly recommend you contact the tribal council before taking a firearm onto their land, here is the Eastern Cherokee criminal law code concerning firearms:

    ARTICLE VIII. WEAPONS OFFENSES


    Sec. 14-34.1. Educational property.

    (a) The following definitions apply in this section:

    (1) Educational property. Any school building or bus, school campus, grounds, recreational area, athletic field, or other property owned, used or operated by any board of education, school, college or university.

    (2) Student. A person enrolled in school, college or university, or a person who has been suspended or expelled within the last five years from a school, college or university, whether the person is an adult or minor.

    (3) Switchblade knife. A knife containing a blade or blades which open automatically by the release of a spring or a similar contrivance.

    (4) Weapon. Any gun rifle, pistol, or other firearm of any kind, a knife, or any dynamite cartridge, bomb, grenade, mine, powerful explosive as defined in North Carolina law, BB gun, air rifle, air pistol, bowie knife, dark, dagger, slingshot, leaded cane, switchblade knife, blackjack, metallic knuckles, razors and razor blades (except solely for personal shaving), and any sharp- pointed or edged instrument except instructional supplies, unaltered nail files and clips and tools used solely for preparation of food, instruction, and maintenance, of educational property.

    (b) It shall be a criminal offense for any person to posses or carry, whether openly, or concealed, any weapon on educational property.

    (c) It shall be a criminal offense for any person to cause, encourage, or aid a minor who is less than 18 years old to possess or carry, whether openly or concealed, any weapon on educational property.

    (d) This section shall not apply to:

    (1) A weapon used solely for educational or school-sanctioned ceremonial purposes, or used in a school approved program conducted under the supervision of an adult whose supervision has been approved by the school authority.

    (2) Armed forces personnel, officer and soldiers of the militia and national guard, law enforcement personnel, and any private police employed by an educational institution, when acting in the discharge of their official duties; or

    (3) Home schools as defined under North Carolina Law.

    (Ord. No. 117, 3-3-2000)


    Sec. 14-34.2. Other assemblies.

    (a) It shall be unlawful for any person to carry any gun, rifle, or pistol into any assembly where a fee has been charged for admission thereto, or into any establishment in which alcoholic beverages are consumed. Any person violating the provisions of this section shall be guilty of a criminal offense.

    (b) This section shall not apply to the following:

    (1) The owner or the lessee of the property or business establishment;

    (2) A person participating in the event, if he is carrying a gun, rifle, or pistol with the permission of the owner, lessee or person or organization sponsoring the event; and

    (3) Armed forces personnel, officer and soldiers of the militia and national guard, law enforcement personnel, and any private police employed by an educational institution, when acting in the discharge of their official duties.

    (Ord. No. 117, 3-3-2000)


    Sec. 14-34.3. Punishment.

    Persons subject to the criminal jurisdiction of the Cherokee Court who violate the provisions of section 14-34.1 or 14-34.2 of this article shall be subject to punishment by a fine of up to $1,000.00, imprisonment for not more than one year for each offense, or both.

    (Ord. No. 117, 3-3-2000)


    Secs. 14-34.4—14-34.9. Reserved.


    General Weapons Offenses


    Sec. 14-34.10. Weapons offense.

    (a) It shall be unlawful to:

    (1) Have a dangerous weapon in one's actual possession while being addicted to any narcotic drug; or after having been declared mentally incompetent; or while being intoxicated or otherwise under the influence of alcoholic beverages or any other intoxicating substance, drug, or medicine; or while possessing the intent to unlawfully assault another; or while under the age of 16 years, and without the consent of his or her parent or guardian; or

    (2) Carry a loaded firearm in a vehicle on a public road without lawful authority to do so; or to discharge any kind of firearm from a motor vehicle without lawful authority to do so; or to discharge a firearm from, upon or across any public highway without lawful authority to do so.

    (b) Definitions:

    (1) Dangerous weapon means any item that in the manner of its use or intended use is capable of causing death or serious bodily injury. In determining whether an item, object or thing not commonly known as a dangerous weapon is a dangerous weapon, the character of the instrument, object or thing, the character of the wound produced, if any, and the manner in which the instrument, item or thing was used shall be determinative.

    (2) Firearms means pistols, revolvers, rifles, shotguns, and any device that is capable of being used as a weapon because it expels a projectile by some means of force. A firearm or other weapon shall be deemed "loaded" when there is an unexpended cartridge, shell or projectile in the firing position, except in the case of pistols and revolvers in which case they shall be deemed "loaded" when an unexpended cartridge, shell or projectile is in such position as could be fired by one or more pulls of the trigger.

    (3) Weapons offense shall be punishable by a fine not to exceed $5,000.00, by a term of imprisonment not to exceed one year of both.

    (Ord. No. 117, 3-3-2000)


    Sec. 14-34.11. Aggravated weapons offense.

    (a) It shall be unlawful to carry a dangerous weapon concealed on the person or to threaten to use or exhibit a dangerous weapon in a dangerous and threatening manner, or use a dangerous weapon in a fight or quarrel; or to possess a shotgun or rifle having a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in a length or an altered or modified shotgun or rifle less than 24 inches overall length.

    (b) Aggravated weapons offense shall be punishable by a fine not to exceed $5,000.00, by a term of imprisonment not to exceed one year, by exclusion for a period of not less than one nor more than five years, or by any combination of them.
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  14. #29
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    The whole thing stems from "Without lawful authority to do so" part of it.. Who has the lawful authority? I have it in my state and many other states,... That would have to be defined by the reservation government???? Think??

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by bugmenot15 View Post
    I don't think you got my point, does one go to the jail of the Cherokee nation state or do the federal police of the USA or the local police of whichever US county "contains" the reservation get called to take the suspect to their facility? Of course the tribes have a peace keeping force but what happens after detainment really defines the line between a true nation state and a grandfathered exception and is why the Mexico / Canada / China comparison is failing.

    As I've said, I may be naive to this but I doubt the answer is the US citizen gets convicted in a Cherokee court and does time in a Cherokee prison.

    My response was to the OP's question. I didn't read your post.
    The smart thing to do is call the Tribal Police of the tribe that you are visiting and ask them, cut out the middleman so to speak.

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