Poll: Teacher's carrying

This is a discussion on Poll: Teacher's carrying within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I agree they should have extra training maybe even in counter terrarest tactics...

View Poll Results: Should teachers be allowed to carry at school?

Voters
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  • Yes, anytime, anywhere

    313 89.68%
  • Yes, at college/university level only

    8 2.29%
  • Yes, at high school level or above

    15 4.30%
  • Yes, at jr high level or above (not elementary)

    9 2.58%
  • Yes, but only outside of school hours (no kids around)

    1 0.29%
  • NO. Too tricky. Teachers don't want the liability.

    3 0.86%
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Thread: Poll: Teacher's carrying

  1. #31
    Member Array bruce09's Avatar
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    I agree they should have extra training maybe even in counter terrarest tactics

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  3. #32
    Member Array C Paul Lincoln's Avatar
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    All the time, but . . .

    I voted that all teachers should be able to carry all the time, because it is the closest to what I would recommend.

    My profession is in the field of school security and safety -- I oversee security of schools on a regional basis, so I have a broad perspective of this both from the system perspective and that of a CPL holder and 2A proponent.

    The argument that most will make against teachers being armed is liability. As others have said, teachers who carry inside the building should have special training, and I believe they should have permission to do so from the principal or superintendent. Before you flame me for this, think of the broad spectrum of teachers you know -- are you comfortable with all of them carrying with your child in the school? I'm not -- too many that are not mentally prepared to do so. The training requirement would assure they are serious about the responsibility, have the right mindset, and are capable of accurately placing shots in a crisis (which means semi-annual recertification). Permission means administrators and officers know who in the building is armed. Look to the small district in Texas that armed some teachers -- this is essentially their model, and it makes sense.

    Because of the special environment of the school, I would also recommend that at least the primary mag be loaded with frangible ammunition to reduce over-penetration and ricochet. There are many schools being built with drywall instead of brick or concrete block.

    Others have made recommendations I support: no off-body carry, deep concealment in K-12 schools, not just teachers.

    As far as college/university carry, there should be no restrictions. Any staff member or student with a CPL should be able to legally carry. The difference is the custodial nature of the K-12 schools.

    As to state laws -- many states already have provisions in thier laws to allow for carry by teachers/staff with proper permission. Usually this is not apparent, because the statutes refer to something like "building secuirty" being capable of being armed. Essentially this means that if the district give a teacher formal permission to carry, they can become part of the "security team" and would not be violating law by carrying. This is how the Harrold School District in Texas was able to let some teachers carry. Federal law does not prohibit on-campus carry by somebody with a CPL issued by the state (with some restrctions).

    One last note -- those of us on this board are not "average" concealed carry holders. By the fact that you are here, each of you are more interested in the topic, more cognizant of the legalities and responsibilities CCW brings, and probably more skilled with your firearms. When you question my recommendation for training and permission, remember that without such restriction any teacher with a CPL would be allowed to carry. In my state, that CPL only means they paid the bucks and passed the background check.

    Charles

  4. #33
    Distinguished Member Array Stetson's Avatar
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    Yes, if a kid knows his teacher carrying a pistol and the teachers in the adjacent rooms have pistols any would be thugs will feel overwhelmed and might take there violence some where else.

  5. #34
    Ex Member Array PNUT's Avatar
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    I'd be for it if the teachers were good enough shots. I wouldn't want the typical CCW'er shooting in a roomful of kids, not meaning to offend ,but too many people qualify then never shoot again. It would take a lot more than a day or two with Mr. Ayoob too, I'm talking about someone really well trained. I'd prefer that the schools have security layers so that the BG would meet resistance long before he got near any kids. The armed teacher would be the last layer. I guess that I'm for it,at the end of the day the teacher should have the same rights as anyone else to protect his/her life. At least the BG's would have a little something to think about before assaulting a school.I also think that students of legal age should be allowed to carry in school. IMO, if you have a permit you should be allowed to carry, period.

  6. #35
    Ex Member Array United93's Avatar
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    IMO, teachers with CC permits (if required in their State) should be allowed to carry at their place of work, for self protection. While we hope they would, no one should assume that they, even if armed, would take action against a shooter. They are not the police, and even though they would have a moral obligation (IMO) to take action, they should not be expected to become bodyguards just because they carry.

  7. #36
    Member Array rockusaf's Avatar
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    My wife is a teacher, she works with 3-5 graders, even though I haven't been able to convince her to get her CHL I don't know how she puts up with some of the crap from these kids, but I still voted anywhere anytime. I know she'd do anything she could to protect any one of them and she should have the option to have the tools to do that.
    Thanks,
    Rock

  8. #37
    VIP Member Array Supertac45's Avatar
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    As long as they are properly trained.
    Les Baer 45
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    M.C.R.G.O.

  9. #38
    Member Array Bacon's Avatar
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    The final decision should be up to the person who is on scene, the teacher.
    NRA Life Member

  10. #39
    Senior Member Array wjh2657's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stetson View Post
    Yes, if a kid knows his teacher carrying a pistol and the teachers in the adjacent rooms have pistols any would be thugs will feel overwhelmed and might take there violence some where else.
    As a retired High School teacher, I would oppose armed teachers in high schools for the exact reason above. The average teenager is a totally different animal than an adult. The guns won't frighten them. It will only lead to challenges from other students to disarm and/or challenge teachers. They will force the inevitable confrontation "go ahead, you going to shoot me!" type of situations that will get unarmed teenagers with their hormones running killed and Teachers put away in prison. I EDC now but I would never have taken a gun into the "lion's den."

    You have to "take their crap" you are paid to do that. If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. These aren't aliens, they are YOUR kids and they all act that way at some time in their teen age years. It is part of the growing up and social experience. I was a Behavior Intervention teacher for 9 years of my career and I never was attacked, even though I had the meanest kids in the pack. There are better ways to deal with kids than with a gun, and dealing with kids is your job, not stopping domestic terrorists.

    College teachers is a whole different game, 18+ YO kids are young adults. They think and act more like us. I would support armed staff on college campus.

    BTW I spent 30 years in USMC before taking up teaching and I am not some "sheeple Liberal," I am just an experienced (18 years) High School teacher basing these thoughts on my actual working with teenagers.
    Retired Marine, Retired School Teacher, Independent voter, Goldwater Conservative.

  11. #40
    Member Array Bacon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wjh2657 View Post
    As a retired High School teacher, I would oppose armed teachers in high schools for the exact reason above. The average teenager is a totally different animal than an adult. The guns won't frighten them. It will only lead to challenges from other students to disarm and/or challenge teachers. They will force the inevitable confrontation "go ahead, you going to shoot me!" type of situations that will get unarmed teenagers with their hormones running killed and Teachers put away in prison. I EDC now but I would never have taken a gun into the "lion's den."

    You have to "take their crap" you are paid to do that. If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. These aren't aliens, they are YOUR kids and they all act that way at some time in their teen age years. It is part of the growing up and social experience. I was a Behavior Intervention teacher for 9 years of my career and I never was attacked, even though I had the meanest kids in the pack. There are better ways to deal with kids than with a gun, and dealing with kids is your job, not stopping domestic terrorists.

    College teachers is a whole different game, 18+ YO kids are young adults. They think and act more like us. I would support armed staff on college campus.

    BTW I spent 30 years in USMC before taking up teaching and I am not some "sheeple Liberal," I am just an experienced (18 years) High School teacher basing these thoughts on my actual working with teenagers.
    How is a kid going to know a teacher is armed? Aren't we discussing concealed carry here?

    The teacher isn't going to deal with kids with a gun. Concealed carry is meant to stop an active shooter that is usually from outside the classroom.
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  12. #41
    Distinguished Member Array Guardian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bacon View Post
    How is a kid going to know a teacher is armed? Aren't we discussing concealed carry here?

    The teacher isn't going to deal with kids with a gun. Concealed carry is meant to stop an active shooter that is usually from outside the classroom.

    LOL, how do kids know allot of things? You and I both know they would find out one way or another, their good at that.

    I voted no, I would vote for hiring of armed security guards to patrol the school or be stationed in the school (as our Police do already) before I would want the teachers armed. Just my thoughts on it.
    "I dislike death, however, there are some things I dislike more than death. Therefore, there are times when I will not avoid danger" Mencius"

  13. #42
    Ex Member Array JOHNSMITH's Avatar
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    When we're talking about grade school, I'd rather see administrators armed by their own choice. Last thing you want is forcing someone who doesn't want to carry a gun to carry a gun. They're more likely to mess up and "lose" it, not use it, not train with it, etc.

    I know I'll probably get some flak for my post here, but so be it.

    When I was in high school, all there was was two armed resource officers. That's about it, although it beats nothing. But we had a pretty big campus. I'd rather see both them and administrators able to carry. Between the two groups, they do tend to spread out around the campus during school hours. Of course, there are schools where the administrators just sit in an office all day, so that's no help because someone has to pick up the phone to call them first, which is always the issue.

  14. #43
    Senior Member Array wjh2657's Avatar
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    "The teacher isn't going to deal with kids with a gun. Concealed carry is meant to stop an active shooter that is usually from outside the classroom."

    Read the post again. if teacher is armed, male students will try to "test" the teacher and cause confrontation. It won't be just "punks' either, it will probably be the football players or another high viz student "cliche". It also won't just be once. They will do it until teacher draws. Also remember, at any one time there are 20-30 of them and only one of you. Most in the room will support another student not the teacher. Don't try to think like a teen-ager, you can't. You are an adult. Different critters, believe me. It just isn't a good environment for a gun to be inserted into the equation.
    Retired Marine, Retired School Teacher, Independent voter, Goldwater Conservative.

  15. #44
    Member Array Bacon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wjh2657 View Post
    "The teacher isn't going to deal with kids with a gun. Concealed carry is meant to stop an active shooter that is usually from outside the classroom."

    Read the post again. if teacher is armed, male students will try to "test" the teacher and cause confrontation. It won't be just "punks' either, it will probably be the football players or another high viz student "cliche". It also won't just be once. They will do it until teacher draws. Also remember, at any one time there are 20-30 of them and only one of you. Most in the room will support another student not the teacher. Don't try to think like a teen-ager, you can't. You are an adult. Different critters, believe me. It just isn't a good environment for a gun to be inserted into the equation.
    Read my post again. Who says the teacher is armed any given day? It could be 1 in 4 that are packing. Or 1 in 10. No one really knows.

    paul34 - You are reading way too much into this. Who said a teacher is being "forced" to carry a gun?

    Both of you are saying that no teacher at any time should have the option to pack even if they have passed all qualifications. No way never. Sorry, I don't agree. Using straw-man arguments to prove your points doesn't convince me. How about some real facts?
    NRA Life Member

  16. #45
    Member Array jdivence's Avatar
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    I believe that 2A does not say everyone but insert profession here are aloud to KABA.
    Being in a school though i think there should be extra precautions especially in any school under the college level. I would saw CC only no OC. No purse carry the firearm must be on the person. If the teacher would like to keep it in a desk drawer then there must be a lockable container inside the drawers like a COM safe.
    The biggest fear of all the anti 2Aers out there is little kids or troubled teens getting a hold of a teachers firearm. With these simple precautions the problem could be solved.
    God invented cops so that firemen could have heroes too!

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