Requiring my real estate agents to carry... - Page 3

Requiring my real estate agents to carry...

This is a discussion on Requiring my real estate agents to carry... within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by NavyLT So, you are going to impose your personal beliefs upon an individual as a requirement for employment which has no bearing ...

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Thread: Requiring my real estate agents to carry...

  1. #31
    Distinguished Member Array tinkerinWstuff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLT View Post
    So, you are going to impose your personal beliefs upon an individual as a requirement for employment which has no bearing on their effectiveness to do their job. Nice.

    Carrying a gun is a personal choice and along with that choice comes the responsibility - either being responsible for the gun and actions associated with the gun, or responsible for the consequences of not carrying.

    We as a gun community will stand up and scream that our rights are being denied because employers forbid carrying on the job. Now, a supporter of the 2nd ammendment is going to do the same thing in reverse?!?
    Although true, lighten up dude. I think he gets the point from everyone else's posts and you could make your point without flaming the guy. Have a beer on me.
    "Run for your life from the man who tells you that money is evil. That sentence is the leper's bell of an approaching looter. So long as men live together on earth and need means to deal with one another-their only substitute, if they abandon money, is the muzzle of a gun."

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  2. #32
    VIP Member Array boricua's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GunnyBunny View Post
    A local agent was murdered here about a year ago while she was showing a home to an out of town buyer.

    The case is still unsolved.
    Same in NC. A real estate agent was murdered a few years ago by a "prospect buyer" while showing a home.

    To the OP, I am glad that you take the personal safety of your employees so seriously. Any employee could have his/her life threatened by BGs. I wish more employers were like you.
    Duty, Honor, Country...MEDIC!!!
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  3. #33
    Distinguished Member Array sniper58's Avatar
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    My friend in Las Vegas is an inspector and routinely walks into a "vacant" house for an inspection, only to be confronted by vagrants or other miscreants and has drawn before calling 911.
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  4. #34
    Member Array oldogy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mkh View Post
    Everyone is saying to "recommend" and talking about the liability involved. I am curious of the liability that you may incur if something was to happen to the agent or customers if they weren't armed.
    That would be my question too. What is the relationship of the sales rep to the holding company, employee, independent contractor or other?
    A real estate sales person is one of the few jobs where a BG can make a date to meet with bad intent.
    oldogy
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  5. #35
    Member Array lowdog's Avatar
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    I have been working closely with a real estate agent for the last three months buying foreclosed rental properties. We look at a few properties a week. The subject came up about guns. I told him I dont go anywhere without mine. He then told me a story where he went into a foreclosed property only to find a few crack heads inside. He told me he was scared $***less. We talk about him getting his permit often. I hope he does.

  6. #36
    Member Array ccroom's Avatar
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    Before I get into this and offend anyone I'm going to say I'm sorry now. Would everyone agree that anyone with a CWL has a higher level of thinking for the most part. When I say requirement, I'm going to carefully pick out the individual I hire. Anyone every let someone use your car or do you drive a business vehicle "weapon". If you get in a wreck and kill someone you and the person who own's the car will be held liable. I couldn't hire someone if I couldn't trust them with my property "trust but verify". I would be willing to accept the liabilty. I care more for my empoyee's more than the BG. Most employer's will not let employee's carry. Can I sue the employer for not protecting me or allowing me to protect myself if I get hurt? There are liability issues for everything you do in life. This would be no different than performing a task at work that you do not agree with. I sold cars for a few years, when they told me to start lying, I no longer sold cars. And your right about training, I would provide it, no different than an employer providing training for you to do the job they want you to do. I agree with the above post about "let me choose my weapon". Do you think when you go to a gun shop and every one is carrying, they are just for show. Is the employer going to be there to ok the shoot? Do you think police are asked "Would you like to carry a .40 and mace or one or the other?". I guess what really got me started was that I just had a baby 6 days ago and the lack of security at the hospital basically came down to negligence. While my wife was in the hospital there was an instance where someone, somewhere in the news walked into a hospital and started shooting. The hospital we were at had a no weapons policy, I still carried. If they weren't going to take it seriously I would and did. Sorry to be so long winded but if we don't make a difference no one will. If I remember correctly some people in OK thought when we allowed concealed carry there would be a shooting for every fender bender. It didn't happen. Maybe if I start this and get a proven tract record more companies would allow it. I'm adding a link for a story in Tulsa, OK about how they thought bad things would come with concealed carry but they never really did. I'm saying, believe what your passionate about and own it.


    Tulsa World: Armed and Licensed: Concealed carry law hitting mark
    "You cannot invade mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind each blade of grass." - Admiral Yamamoto

  7. #37
    Member Array bcbrown2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccroom View Post
    I think I'm going to require any agents that have their CWL and work for me to carry.
    Too many times we see employers keeping their employees's from carrying.
    We have had instances here lately where realtors are kidnapped and taken to the ATM machine.
    It's just a matter of time before one of them pulls the trigger.
    If I lived closer, you'd have my resume in your fax machine. I'm currently in the job market and would love nothing more than to work someplace that encouraged personal responsibility for self-defense and didn't regard it as a fringe-group nutjob activity. If they ran their office using Macs... I'd be in heaven and would volunteer to vacuum at night if that's what it took to get in the door.

    My wife works for a company founded by former sheriff's office veterans and the head of security just happens to be a four-term retired sheriff himself. I'm OK with where she works and "the man" knows she can be trusted if the fit were to hit the shan. Needless to say, I've been trying to get in that door for quite some time now...

  8. #38
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    I feel your issue, but have to be practical. Check with your attorney and insurance carrier. Insurance is the biggie. They may refuse to insure you. You may have to go with a 'no policy' policy. You can always talk it up in the hiring process as a good idea, but I would even stop short of making it a recommendation.

    Even making it a prerequisite to hire could cause someone who does not have the personal responsibility, to comply, and end up causing more harm than good.
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

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  9. #39
    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
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    ccroom,

    When you say employee, do they actually work for you, or are you one of their clients? You say that you have a real estate investment company and when you finish with a property you turn it over to a realtor to sell.

    To me that sounds like you hire the realtor to sell your property but they don't actually work for you. I am going to assume that they sell property for other people as well, and if that is the case they are independent contractors not employees of yours. If they do in fact only work for you and meet the requirements for employee vs independent contractor then I suppose you can make what ever employment requirements you might see fit within the law. I don't know that carrying a gun is one of them.

    Some clarification on that point would be quite helpful.

    As far as requiring them to carry, well good luck. Since I don't know OK laws I am not going to get into who would be responsible if they shot someone or they got killed ect. But I will say that if they are a good real estate agent and are able to move properties for you, that should be your main concern. They are grown people and if they don't feel the need to carry that is their choice, not yours. If you drive off a good agent because of your demands, only to be able to hire some numbskull that will carry when you want and they don't move properties what have you accomplished? You might get that warm fuzzy feeling but you may be on the way to poor house because of it.
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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  10. #40
    Member Array Dakota97's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccroom View Post
    Before I get into this and offend anyone I'm going to say I'm sorry now. Would everyone agree that anyone with a CWL has a higher level of thinking for the most part. When I say requirement, I'm going to carefully pick out the individual I hire. Anyone every let someone use your car or do you drive a business vehicle "weapon". If you get in a wreck and kill someone you and the person who own's the car will be held liable. I couldn't hire someone if I couldn't trust them with my property "trust but verify". I would be willing to accept the liabilty. I care more for my empoyee's more than the BG. Most employer's will not let employee's carry. Can I sue the employer for not protecting me or allowing me to protect myself if I get hurt? There are liability issues for everything you do in life. This would be no different than performing a task at work that you do not agree with. I sold cars for a few years, when they told me to start lying, I no longer sold cars. And your right about training, I would provide it, no different than an employer providing training for you to do the job they want you to do. I agree with the above post about "let me choose my weapon". Do you think when you go to a gun shop and every one is carrying, they are just for show. Is the employer going to be there to ok the shoot? Do you think police are asked "Would you like to carry a .40 and mace or one or the other?". I guess what really got me started was that I just had a baby 6 days ago and the lack of security at the hospital basically came down to negligence. While my wife was in the hospital there was an instance where someone, somewhere in the news walked into a hospital and started shooting. The hospital we were at had a no weapons policy, I still carried. If they weren't going to take it seriously I would and did. Sorry to be so long winded but if we don't make a difference no one will. If I remember correctly some people in OK thought when we allowed concealed carry there would be a shooting for every fender bender. It didn't happen. Maybe if I start this and get a proven tract record more companies would allow it. I'm adding a link for a story in Tulsa, OK about how they thought bad things would come with concealed carry but they never really did. I'm saying, believe what your passionate about and own it.


    Tulsa World: Armed and Licensed: Concealed carry law hitting mark
    You addressed the carrying in a gun shop so I thought I would respond as I work a couple of days a week in a gun shop since my retirement from my career job. In our shop, I can't speak for other shops, carrying of a firearm is allowed, but it is not a job requirement.
    Most, but not all, employees carry however the owner's primary concern is that we be able to consistently sell firearms. He allows us the right to protect ourselves but it is our choice.
    NRA life member.

  11. #41
    Member Array Geno's Avatar
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    ccroom, don't you have a big firearms training center just on the north side of Tulsa. USSA??? or something like that. Young son mentioned that they had a "special" for first timers there. Maybe there is an angle you can use to sort out the pro-carry people or offer close by training for them.

  12. #42
    Member Array ccroom's Avatar
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    In response to the earlier post. I have employees who work for me and realtors who I contract to sell. I didn't say I was going to require it but was thinking to do so. I could require my employee's to carry. I also could include this in my contract with my realtor. The point I was trying to make was to show how we had so many who would be against it. We complain constantly about not being allowed to carry but when I put out there that I might possibly consider requiring it most people are against it. What's up with that? Everybody is entitled to there opinion. I don't think I would require my employee's to carry but would encourage it strongly. In OK I can't ask my employee's if they own a gun, but I can ask if they possess a CWL and if not would they consider it. Of coarse I would offer some kind of compensation and training. Again why do we complain about not being able to carry, but when faced with "required" everyone scatters? This is no different than a employer asking if you have reliable transportation, this is a factor on whether or not they will hire you. Also, have you ever quit working somewhere because you didn't like conditions that were changed on you while working somewhere? Have you maybe been overlooked for a position because you didn't have a cert, education or experience? Have you ever chose not to work or apply somewhere because you didn't like there rules or beliefs? You might work somewhere now that does not have a wepons policy and that might change tomorrow. Would that prompt you to leave? I would never force my beliefs on anyone, I wanted to get a honest response by being over the top on the subject. Lets look at the black and white and not the grey.
    "You cannot invade mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind each blade of grass." - Admiral Yamamoto

  13. #43
    Member Array Dakota97's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccroom View Post
    In response to the earlier post. I have employees who work for me and realtors who I contract to sell. I didn't say I was going to require it but was thinking to do so. I could require my employee's to carry. I also could include this in my contract with my realtor. The point I was trying to make was to show how we had so many who would be against it. We complain constantly about not being allowed to carry but when I put out there that I might possibly consider requiring it most people are against it. What's up with that? Everybody is entitled to there opinion. I don't think I would require my employee's to carry but would encourage it strongly. In OK I can't ask my employee's if they own a gun, but I can ask if they possess a CWL and if not would they consider it. Of coarse I would offer some kind of compensation and training. Again why do we complain about not being able to carry, but when faced with "required" everyone scatters? This is no different than a employer asking if you have reliable transportation, this is a factor on whether or not they will hire you. Also, have you ever quit working somewhere because you didn't like conditions that were changed on you while working somewhere? Have you maybe been overlooked for a position because you didn't have a cert, education or experience? Have you ever chose not to work or apply somewhere because you didn't like there rules or beliefs? You might work somewhere now that does not have a wepons policy and that might change tomorrow. Would that prompt you to leave? I would never force my beliefs on anyone, I wanted to get a honest response by being over the top on the subject. Lets look at the black and white and not the grey.
    You asked why we were against requiring carry but complaining about not being able to carry. I can only answer for myself on that and not for others, so here goes.

    The "require" was the issue with me just as it is an issue when I'm not allowed to carry. It's about choice. I think that if I carry or not should be my personal decision. To me, my rights would be just as violated if I were required to something that was not of my choosing as they would be if I were prevented from doing something.
    NRA life member.

  14. #44
    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
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    ccroom,

    I think you have gotten some honest responses to your question. Lots of folks said they would encourage their folks to carry but not require them to. I don't think anyone scattered when the required thing was brought up, but like others have said that is crossing the line and getting into other folks personal liberties.

    You may not have liked the responses, but that is what people told you.

    You bring up the point of reliable transportation as a condition of employment. Yep the employer can ask that but they can't really require that their employees drive x type of car. As long as they are able to get to and from the work place in order to the job they are hired to do, that is about as much as the employer can ask.

    Like Dakota97 says, your requirement that someone do something is just as much an infringement on their rights as if someone prevents them from doing something. Basically you become no better than the folks that you oppose who are against guns.
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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  15. #45
    Member Array ccroom's Avatar
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    I appreciate all the posts negative or positive. Thats what makes this country great is that everyone can have ther own opinion. I could debate this and debate this. But I think I have received enough to answer my question. I concede.
    "You cannot invade mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind each blade of grass." - Admiral Yamamoto

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