quick question

quick question

This is a discussion on quick question within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I have read in some other threads that one should not mod their CC weapon. I was wondering why you should not do this? Can ...

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Thread: quick question

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array bigo5552000's Avatar
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    Question quick question

    I have read in some other threads that one should not mod their CC weapon. I was wondering why you should not do this? Can there be legal implications if you are involved in a self defense incident if you have a modified gun? just confused any help is appreciated. thanks
    "Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius -- and a lot of courage -- to move in the opposite direction."-Einstein


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    Member Array OMEGA2669's Avatar
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    I personally have never heard this... I am planning on putting night sites on my XD when I get it. Maybe they are referring to it's operation? Only reason I can think of is reliability... unless your a professional gunsmith don't mess with it... but I dunno... I'm sure you will get an answer that is useful though.
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  3. #3
    Senior Member Array bigo5552000's Avatar
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    yes ones that affect operation..
    "Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius -- and a lot of courage -- to move in the opposite direction."-Einstein

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    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
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    You're probably thinking about trigger pull modifications. As in lightening the trigger pull. Pretty popular with some Glock owners since those are so easily changed. I have my own thoughts on this subject, and personally, the stock triggers in all of my pistols work fine for me. A lighter trigger than stock could become a legal problem once you are in front of an attorney and a jury, or become a safety issue that leads to injury of oneself or others with possible property damage. Grip reductions, recoil spring replacements, polishing a feed ramp, over-sized safeties or magazine catches may also affect operation to some extent, but wouldn't create the same impact with the investigating officer or the jury and may even be overlooked. But a hair trigger might earn you the blood-thirsty ninja of the year award, and a flat bottom boat without oars. Be sensible in your mods, and look at them through sheep's eyes.

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    Member Array M203Sniper's Avatar
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    If you carry a firearm for self defense you need competent legal representation.

    The world hates you and 12 of those people will be on the jury at your trial.
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    My carry gun(s) are pretty stock...I perhaps would add night sights, mag extensions, but little else. I want to keep things simple.
    Now for some who have those 'extra' guns and want to make them 'oooze' with bells and whistles...I say go for it.

    Stay armed...K.I.S.S...stay safe! OMO
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    VIP Member Array Pikachu711's Avatar
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    I've only changed the stock sights to night sights and added magazine extensions to my 10 round magazines. Aside from that my Glock 26 is a stock gun.
    "Gun control is being able to hit your target."
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    Distinguished Member Array fotomaker57's Avatar
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    First and foremost you need to worry about reliability of your weapon. When we start changing from stock we run the risk of affecting reliability. Second are the legal concerns if God forbid you ever have to use that weapon. I feel we should all read this book Amazon.com: In the Gravest Extreme: The Role of the Firearm in Personal Protection: Massad F. Ayoob: Books Massad Ayoob breaks it all down in this fine book.
    Mike
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    Distinguished Member Array Paymeister's Avatar
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    A Kel-Tec P3AT is often a little "rough" out of the box, so polishing out machining marks would seem perfectly reasonable. Such a treatment is so well-accepted and common for these pistols as you'll see it referenced in shorthand as a "fluff-and-buff".

    But I've also seen P3AT instructions for using wirecutters, a piece of sheet metal and a drywall screw to make an adjustable main trigger spring! Sure, it's nifty from one standpoint, but it's a bit too close to a Darwin Award in the making for my taste. Aside from the very real reliability concerns, I don't think you would want to be on the stand being asked about where you got your gunsmith training, where your mechanical engineering degree is from, why you thought your work would be better than the manufacturers, how the nice boy from the good family got killed because your trigger was too sensitive, and so on.

    I would encourage you to limit any modifications to simple bolt-ons (lights, lasers, mag extensions, new sights) or cleanup only. MAYBE a standard gunsmith mod such as a lightened spring on an SP101 (10 pounds down to a hardly-hairtrigger 7 pounds, for example).
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    Senior Member Array LeCalsey's Avatar
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    For CC.....get good and comfortable with a factory piece and if you have doubts, try another. I always worry about legal ramifications to modified guns.

    Remeber, you have a right to be judged by a jury of sheep! In this political climate, it's even more risky. The sheep are in charge of EVERYTHING
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    Member Array ncglock's Avatar
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    Depends on the mod, night sights... definitely, if something happens chances are good it will be in low light or no light situations.

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    Distinguished Member Array kazzaerexys's Avatar
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    Ditto on fotomaker's recommendation; Ayoob makes a career out of helping to defend people charged criminally in self-defense shootings. His guidelines are that any modification which you can justify as making your gun more reliable or accurate are generally okay. Night sights, grips, action work that smooths a trigger, dehorning, &c. Make sure any work done on a carry gun is done by a professional gunsmith and keep the records of the work.

    The don't list is pretty short: do not disable a safety device and do not lighten the trigger (imagine your gun being handed to the jury and somebody there thinking, "What a hair trigger!").

    Last comment is this: the argument against these modification is not that they will automatically get you indicted in an otherwise clean self-defense shoot; it is that these are things that a prosecutor will try to exploit in front of the jury if you do end up getting indicted for whatever reason.
    “What is a moderate interpretation of [the Constitution]? Halfway between what it says and [...] what you want it to say?” —Justice Antonin Scalia

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    VIP Member Array tns0038's Avatar
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    Other than night sights or other after market sights in general, are the only modifications one should do to a CCL weapon. Exception may be a “fluff and buff” of the ramp

    Reason is more reliability than anything else.

    However, have an AD and the District attorney finds out you had your pistol modified with a lighter trigger, you’d better hang on for a ton of bad news is coming your way.

  14. #14
    Senior Member Array bigo5552000's Avatar
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    thanks for the info guys!
    "Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius -- and a lot of courage -- to move in the opposite direction."-Einstein

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    Senior Member Array KenInColo's Avatar
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    After thinking it over, and b/c Mas Ayoob says that any work done to improve accuracy is a plus for you, I had Bill Springfield's (Bill Springfield - www.TriggerWork.net) standard trigger & accuracy job done on my EDC (P2000). It lightened the DA pull from 11lbs. to 9 lbs. and took the "creep" out of the SA pull.

    The results are noticeably better. Taking it to the range this afternoon.
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    An unarmed populace are called subjects.

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