If you need a gun, don't go? - Page 5

If you need a gun, don't go?

This is a discussion on If you need a gun, don't go? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I think there are two totally different concepts here. Nobody says to avoid going anywhere you need to. The point was simply to avoid places ...

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Thread: If you need a gun, don't go?

  1. #61
    Senior Member Array wjh2657's Avatar
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    I think there are two totally different concepts here.

    Nobody says to avoid going anywhere you need to. The point was simply to avoid places where you can see the danger looming. Don't walk around in the middle of a notorious neighborhood with $100 bills sticking out of your pockets. Don't walk into a biker bar and scream"Harley's suck!" If you are pretty sure you are walking into a fight, don't bring a gun, go home.

    Otherwise carry discretely wherever you go and be prepared. I EDC but I don't go looking for gunfights, and there are places around that "breed" gunfights.
    Retired Marine, Retired School Teacher, Independent voter, Goldwater Conservative.


  2. #62
    Distinguished Member Array Squawker's Avatar
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    I certainly don't go out of my way to go to those areas, but I don't let a bad neighborhood decide where I go.

  3. #63
    Member Array wolfshead's Avatar
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    I have ended up unintentionally in bad neighborhoods whenever I drive long distances and I have to take the exit for a pit stop or gas or food. Some places are just fine with friendly people, but there are other places where you are just looking over your shoulder, waiting to get out of there. I am glad I'll be carrying from this week. I doubt I'll go to Tacoma WA at 2 am to fill gas or get munchies at a 711 there, but I won't get paranoid when I go driving long distances and have to stop in shady areas.
    Vince K
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  4. #64
    Ex Member Array Oldskoolfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deanimator View Post
    The state of Illinois made it impossible for any of those women to defend themselves. Five of the six are dead. Unless the state legislature ACCIDENTALLY passed anti-CCW legislation, they MEANT for those women to be disarmed, and knew the likely consequences.

    Two possibilities:

    A - The women can defend themselves.

    B - The women can't defend themselves.

    Illinois chose B. I don't see anybody appologizing for choosing B. They got the result which they preferred.
    What if the women did not choose to defend themselves had a CCW permit been a possibility? Would it be the states fault?

  5. #65
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    Precisely, we are all criminals. But we often disparage others on various forums for doing things such as selling drugs, using drugs, and other victimless crimes. But I would not brag about breaking the law on a public forum.

  6. #66
    Senior Member Array GreyGhost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wjh2657 View Post
    Negative. The "Gray Man" tag came from the Intelligence (Spies) community and means an effective agent who is even more effective because he is non-descript and never noticed in a crowd. the Gray Man is very aware but he doesn't try to stand out or to take risks to jeopardize his mission. My mission is to stay alive, not make a political statement.

    Practicing Gray Man skills is not cowardice or ignorance, it is wisdom grasshopper!

    Some people have to go into bad areas because of their official duties or job. My heart goes out to them but I have survived long enough to be retired and do not have to challenge the homies on their home ground.
    I'm a Ghost. I didn't know it was called Gray Man, but I like it. I don't go anywhere I don't need to.

  7. #67
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    KempoTx said
    Personally, my view of the "don't go anywhere with a gun that you wouldn't go without a gun" thing is that it means "don't develop a false sense of security and make foolish decisions just because you happen to have a pistol on your hip."
    And he hit it in the nail. The first advice we always have for somebody who is carrying for the first time is : Leave the Ego at home.
    Just because you have a gun, you have not become invincible. Guess what? bullets will make nice little holes in your body and blood will pour out just like before you had a gun. Do you live and work in a bad part of town ? Nobody is telling you to move and yes, you do have a right to travel from a to those parts. Same for your SD classes or the grocery store that you always go. But what we are saying is do not suddenly develop a new pair because you have a gun. If before you never parked your car in front of the house that everybody knows is used as a drug den, what's the sense in calling for trouble by parking now that you have a gun?
    And legally, you are setting yourself for trouble. If the DA asks you what were you doing in that part of town and your answer is "Because I wanted to. No criminal is gonna dictate where I go or how I live." you will be presented to the jury and a nutjob vigilante that they must put behind bars for the safety of the community.
    You have to make the shot when fire is smoking, people are screaming, dogs are barking, kids are crying and sirens are coming.
    Randy Cain.

    Ego will kill you. Leave it at home.
    Signed: Me!

  8. #68
    Ex Member Array Deanimator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tecumseh View Post
    What if the women did not choose to defend themselves had a CCW permit been a possibility? Would it be the states fault?
    But they didn't CHOOSE. The choice was made FOR them. Being able to defend themselves was never an option.

    If you have an eating disorder and starve YOURSELF to death, it's not the state's fault.

    If the state forcibly prevents you from eating and you starve to death, it's the state's fault.

    The State of Illinois has made the choice that robbery, rape and murder of unarmed, helpless victims is preferable to effective self-defense... unless you're arguing that the state's anti-ccw laws are somehow a... "typo".

  9. #69
    Member Array bigdogtx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    If you know you will need a gun, don't go there. That is common sense.

    If it is likely you will need a gun, don't go there. That too is common sense.

    Carry for SD is necessary because there is always risk which is unpredictable.

    Only a fool (or LE or Soldier or armed professional) would knowingly and deliberately put themselves in a place where a gun is likely to be needed.
    Do you mean like......church....the mall....etc. I never know when or where I will need a gun, so I carry whereever I go.

  10. #70
    Member Array GHFLRLTD's Avatar
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    The Other Side Has A Say

    Going places where the need to have a gun exceeds the requirement to be there is one thing, but there is one key point that can not be left out.

    Put bluntly - The Other (Dark) Side has a say on what can happen where and when.

    If you make the assumption that you and you alone control events that impact you, that flies in the face of common sense. Criminals and Whack Jobs make decisions based on their goals and objectives - which are not necessarily your goals and objectives.

    You are responsible to stop the threats that enter your space and time. With a gun, you have an additional tool to take care of your responsibilities.
    Last edited by GHFLRLTD; May 25th, 2009 at 03:22 PM.
    George H. Foster
    Orlando, Florida

  11. #71
    Ex Member Array Deanimator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GHFLRLTD View Post
    Put bluntly - The Other (Dark) Side has as say on what can happen where and when.
    ANY place can INSTANTLY get as dangerous as Stalingrad during the German siege. It just takes ONE person who wants it to.

  12. #72
    Ex Member Array Oldskoolfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deanimator View Post
    But they didn't CHOOSE. The choice was made FOR them. Being able to defend themselves was never an option.

    If you have an eating disorder and starve YOURSELF to death, it's not the state's fault.

    If the state forcibly prevents you from eating and you starve to death, it's the state's fault.

    The State of Illinois has made the choice that robbery, rape and murder of unarmed, helpless victims is preferable to effective self-defense... unless you're arguing that the state's anti-ccw laws are somehow a... "typo".
    They still have the right of self defense, just not a gun. In Illinois there is a precident that allows people to be immune from breaking gun laws when in self defense. There was a handgun ban in a small town in Northern IL awhile back. A man there had his house burglarized and he killed the intruder with a handgun. The court found the man to be innocent and I believe the charges for violation of this were dropped. It becomes a kind of precident, and some legal scholars have debated whether it was in Illinois or not.

    I could also argue that had the women decided to become police officers they would have the right to carry a firearm here in IL. If everything is about choices in regards to self defense then wouldn't you try to become a cop so that you could carry or move to a "free" state?

  13. #73
    Ex Member Array Deanimator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tecumseh View Post
    They still have the right of self defense, just not a gun. In Illinois there is a precident that allows people to be immune from breaking gun laws when in self defense. There was a handgun ban in a small town in Northern IL awhile back. A man there had his house burglarized and he killed the intruder with a handgun. The court found the man to be innocent and I believe the charges for violation of this were dropped. It becomes a kind of precident, and some legal scholars have debated whether it was in Illinois or not.

    I could also argue that had the women decided to become police officers they would have the right to carry a firearm here in IL. If everything is about choices in regards to self defense then wouldn't you try to become a cop so that you could carry or move to a "free" state?
    "You can defend yourself... just not in any way likely to succeed." Yeah, that's a "choice".

    How about this? I give you permission to eat... foam packing peanuts. Eating anything else will result in a ten year jail sentence.

    That "law" you refer to pertains only to self-defense in one's own home. Did any of those women live in that Lane Bryant store?

    Illinois gave those women no choice but to be helpless victims. It's the same kind of choice as choosing to feed your children nothing but newspaper, and with similar results.

  14. #74
    Ex Member Array Oldskoolfan's Avatar
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    I would argue that the women in that store and the people of Illinois vote anti-gun so this is how they want it. Thus you are correct the state does want it, but if the women wanted to be armed they were free to move to a state that doesn't have a complete prohibition on carrying firearms.

  15. #75
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    And Deanimator what if I move to Ohio or another state which does not allow me to carry until I am at least age 21? Does that mena the state wants me to die? Does the USA want its citizens under the age of 21 to die by making it harder for them to obtain weapons?

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