An acquaintance believes in carrying concealed... but without a permit

This is a discussion on An acquaintance believes in carrying concealed... but without a permit within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Hopyard I guess I would want to check on one aspect of his claim. Does he in fact carry on his person, ...

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Thread: An acquaintance believes in carrying concealed... but without a permit

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array grady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    I guess I would want to check on one aspect of his claim. Does he in fact carry on his person, or is he keeping the gun in his car.
    He carries on his person. Often he goes places without a car. He even mentioned it would be like "shooting fish in a barrel" if an active shooter showed up at this location. I don't want to mention the location, but you can probably guess.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    I'm not 100% on MO law, but seem to recall it is OK in the car?
    You are correct in that we can carry in our car without a CCW permit. As the law read a couple years ago when I researched it, one could carry concealed on one's person without a CCW permit while dropping kids off at school, as long as the carrier did not get out of the car. I doubt that has changed, although I have not researched it lately.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Point out the error and hope that once he sleeps on it, he will change his mind. You might even find out 6 months from now that he in fact went out and got a license and wants to tell you about it.
    I hope he changes his mind in time. I don't know of any reason he can't get a permit, although it's possible he's kept that hidden from me. But I don't think so. I talk to him a couple times a month... I started to say I don't have a lot of influence with him, but I'm more into guns than perhaps anyone he knows, so perhaps I have more influence on him than I know.

    I will keep working with him, but I expect it to take some time. I hope he stays out of jail long enough for me to influence him.

    Quote Originally Posted by rolyat63 View Post
    you didn't mentioned if you and he discussed this board as a possible education point, but it may provide him some much needed info.
    Rolyat63, that's a very good idea. I'll be talking to him again soon as I'm researching a gun price for him, and I'll see if I have an opportunity to mention the forum without seeming pushy.

    Quote Originally Posted by HKR View Post
    Balance that with my coworker who has a GFL and refuses to carry as it's too much trouble and sometimes I just want to scream.
    Yep, I had one of those for awhile, too, and it didn't make sense to me either for him to always leave his gun at home. But he eventually came around and started carrying.

    Quote Originally Posted by Razor View Post
    I would ask him to explain how he believes one should not expect anyone to protect them, however he believes a prosecutor will. This conflict's with his first belief.
    That's a VERY good point.


    In a way, my Grandmother did what this acquaintance is doing now. She carried for decades in her purse after Grandpa died. But she was near the end of her life and she had little to lose, plus the LEO's where she lived would not have been inclined to charge her with carrying. The guy I'm talking about has a lot to lose: wife, home, freedom...

    Some want to stay off the grid in case confiscation comes. I understand that, I really do. But there are others ways to deal with that which don't involve so much personal risk.

    To each his own, but I'm just perplexed this guy will gamble so much on some strangers giving him mercy for not knowing the law.

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  3. #17
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    If he's really a friend please continue to try to point him in the right direction. Carrying W/O a permit will most likely result in a felony. Unless you want to visit him in the state pen talk him out of his present behavior.

  4. #18
    Ex Member Array PNUT's Avatar
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    Grady,
    The next time that the topic comes up tell him not to take your word for it, to ask his attorney or any judge instead. Hearing it from someone who works with the law may be more convincing. I'd imagine that if he runs that theory by a lawyer or judge that the laughter will be deafening.

  5. #19
    Member Array ColoradoDave's Avatar
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    I can't believe some people.

    I think I"d have to be up front with him, tell him that you can't be an accessory to his stupidity, and that if called upon to testify, you will tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

    The stupid card just won't play.
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  6. #20
    Restricted Member Array SelfDefense's Avatar
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    If carrying concealed without a permit is a felony and you are aware a felony is being committed, isn't there a duty and responsibility to inform law enforcement?

    I am not suggesting that as a course of action, only food for thought.

  7. #21
    Senior Member Array rolyat63's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grady View Post
    Rolyat63, that's a very good idea. I'll be talking to him again soon as I'm researching a gun price for him, and I'll see if I have an opportunity to mention the forum without seeming pushy.
    The gun pricing might be a good segue...point him or talk to him primarily about the good deals if you pay attention or subscribe to the sales section on here and oh BTW there is a lot good data...
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  8. #22
    VIP Member Array JonInNY's Avatar
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    I agree with you Grady. Ignorance is never a good defense. He's looking for trouble.
    "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch; Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."
    -- Benjamin Franklin

  9. #23
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    Definitely a sad situation. After reading over MO Statutes on handgunlaw.us, your friend is committing a felony. Ignorance of the law is not going to fly. It probably won't do any good, but I'd print out the Statute and give it to him to read and think about.

  10. #24
    Ex Member Array United93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackeagle View Post
    As Old Grunt mentioned, "ignorance of the law is no excuse". Claiming ignorance isn't going to get him anywhere, and the lack of a carry permit is going to get him in big trouble if the gun is ever discovered.

  11. #25
    Senior Member Array highoctane's Avatar
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    I would keep working on him. He may come around.

  12. #26
    Member Array Bigpoppa48's Avatar
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    Yeah, as a previous poster said he might can't get a permit. I carried in my vehicle for a while without a permit till I came to my senses. If something happened and I had to use deadly force I would have to prove that I didn't have it concealed as NC law allows you to carry in your vehicle as long as it is in plain view. I own a home and have a little nest egg in the bank and a couple of pieces of property. I am sure if I had to use deadly force without a permit all that could be in jeopardy. I have no need to worry about that now though because I've had my Concealed carry permit for about 2 months and now the only thing to worry about is if I have to use deadly force making sure it is justifiable or I will still be in a mess permit or not.

  13. #27
    Distinguished Member Array nutz4utwo's Avatar
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    We must always follow the law. Like it or not, permit or no, Democratic President or not, this or that... it is the only thing that separates us from the BG's.

    Thanks for your effort Grady...

  14. #28
    VIP Member Array zacii's Avatar
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    I have mixed feelings about this issue. Obviously, the ignorance card will get you nowhere (think Nuremberg). In my mind this is clearly an issue between 'legal and illegal' and 'moral and immoral'. It is clearly easier to get a permit and be within the law. However, the moral debate of whether a permit should even be required, is up in the air. The bottom line is, we have inherited a situation. A situation that we had no control over creating. All we can do is deal with it. We have to sit back and determine the fights we can win, while we try to reason with each other. This situation is the result of many decades of tyranny and lust for power in high places, and in my mind, will take many decades of perserverance and patience on our part to correct it.

    You shouldn't need a permit (permission) from anyone for the right to defend yourself. But we musn't be ignorant of the world we live in and who holds the cards......
    Trust in God and keep your powder dry

    "A heavily armed citizenry is not about overthrowing the government; it is about preventing the government from overthrowing liberty. A people stripped of their right of self defense is defenseless against their own government." -source

  15. #29
    Ex Member Array United93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nutz4utwo View Post
    We must always follow the law. Like it or not, permit or no, Democratic President or not, this or that... it is the only thing that separates us from the BG's.

    Thanks for your effort Grady...

  16. #30
    VIP Member Array NC Bullseye's Avatar
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    If all else fails, you could remind him not to read the laws regarding sodomy, maybe that will protect him in prison.

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