An acquaintance believes in carrying concealed... but without a permit - Page 5

An acquaintance believes in carrying concealed... but without a permit

This is a discussion on An acquaintance believes in carrying concealed... but without a permit within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Hiram I don't know if the CCW laws eliminated the "prudent man" defense to carrying w/o a permit. Used to be it ...

Page 5 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast
Results 61 to 75 of 89
Like Tree5Likes

Thread: An acquaintance believes in carrying concealed... but without a permit

  1. #61
    Restricted Member Array SelfDefense's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Tucson
    Posts
    2,736
    Quote Originally Posted by Hiram View Post
    I don't know if the CCW laws eliminated the "prudent man" defense to carrying w/o a permit. Used to be it was an affirmative defense.
    The laws in Arizona make no distinction in our justifiable use of force statutes as to whether the carrying of a gun is legal. Concealed carry without a permit is a criminal offense. So, you could legally defend yourself and still end up in jail for breaking the law. The two are not inconsistent.


  2. #62
    Distinguished Member Array Rcher's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Utah
    Posts
    1,746
    The law is the law and should be followed. I suspect there are alot of people who carry concealed without a permit. I would also suspect that some of those people cannot obtain a permit for some legal reason that they wont speak of why so they give B.S. excuses for their reasoning. I also think that we, as law abiding citizens that are permitted to carry, should report such violations of the 2nd Amendment and the laws of our communities.
    "Government is not the solution to our problem; government IS the problem". - Ronald Reagan 1981

  3. #63
    jfl
    jfl is offline
    Distinguished Member Array jfl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Palm Beach County, FL
    Posts
    1,485
    Quote Originally Posted by skeet732 View Post
    I operate by the old adage; "never offer free advice, wise men don't need it and fools won't heed it" YMMV
    Very true !!!
    I know more people who carry w/o a CCW than with one; and they are "GG" actually a lot of ladies in their fifties ++.
    I don't agree, but there is a lot of things people I know do, that I don't agree with ...

    I have given up "educating" people a long time ago; like trying to teach a pig to sing, you loose your time and annoy the pig.
    What I do, however, is tell people how I do things and why; then it is their choice to think about it and change, or not.
    The first rule of a gunfight: "Don't be there !"
    The second rule: "Bring enough gun"

    jfl
    (NRA Life Member/Instructor - GOA - IDPA - GSSF - ex-IHMSA)

  4. #64
    Member Array langenc's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Montmorency Co, MI
    Posts
    82
    "........going back to school for an advanced degree"

    And he expects to claim ignorance?? yuk

  5. #65
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    texas
    Posts
    15,179
    Quote Originally Posted by langenc View Post
    "........going back to school for an advanced degree"

    And he expects to claim ignorance?? yuk
    Too bad It's not a degree in "common sense"
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

  6. #66
    Member Array Gibber's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    TN
    Posts
    455
    Grady, keep working on him in a friendly way.

    One of my engineering friends at work absolutely digs his heels into the ground and states the the second amendment is his carry permit.
    I simply tell him that I agree in principle but unfortunately, when the gavel slams, he is going to be found guilty if found with a loaded gun in public here in TN.
    I further declared to him that one difference between him and me is that I carried yesterday in the drug store, the mall etc. and he did not because he simply does not want to run the risk. He admitted I was correct but he still will not get a permit. Round and round we go.

    Oh how I wish for Vermont style carry.

  7. #67
    Distinguished Member Array Paymeister's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    1,536
    Quote Originally Posted by BikerRN View Post
    ...Part of having a Permit is that it shows who the good guys are...
    Maybe buy him a badge?
    Recently updated website: http://www.damagedphotorepair.com

  8. #68
    Senior Member Array redbird's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Murfreesboro, TN
    Posts
    649
    I have a couple of buddies that carry without a permit, both say they don't want to be on a list that the feds could come confiscate their weapons.
    Later I found one had a previous incident that would probably kept him from getting his carry permit. Don't know about the other guy but I will not think the worst.

  9. #69
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    27,805
    Quote Originally Posted by SSgt USMC View Post
    People like him in some respects are no better than the criminal's out there doing the crimes.
    On this point, I disagree entirely.

    Reality is, being documented means one can be targeted. Given the history of confiscation around the world, I can see the point.

    But, in no way is an otherwise upstanding citizen similar to criminals who actually execute crimes, merely because one refuses to go through the paperwork. Witness Vermont, for example. Being a criminal requires executing a criminal act against others, not merely being labeled a criminal by a bureaucrat/legislator. IMO, that's the way it should be. Absolutely.

    Understand, I don't agree with his position at all. He's risking his freedom and future attentions from the law. I've gone down the path of legal, documented carrying, and I chose to because it's the legally approved method.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  10. #70
    Senior Member Array 1911luver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    1,108
    Lets be relativistic here if you bought your handgun or any gun from an FFL your probably on a list. The vast majority of gun owners don't carry their gun anyways so this would be a very limited list of gun owners to confiscate from. Also unless your state puts the make and model of gun on your carry permit,then simply having a permit doesn't prove you even own a gun it just proves you have a permit to carry one. Either way its not worth breaking the law get your license and be legal.

  11. #71
    VIP Member Array grady's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Near St. Louis, Missouri
    Posts
    2,837
    I could actually understand if someone refused to get a CCW permit because they didn't want to be on a list if confiscations begin. Such a strategy still carries risk, but many of us assume risk on some level anyway.

    I also understand those who say they shouldn't need a permit because the 2A is all they need. Still carries risk, but that position I do understand.

    I also understand someone carrying without a permit if some past misdeed prevents them from getting a permit: the old adage "better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6." If the choice is possibly a prison term or possibly being killed/your family being killed, I understand carrying anyway.

    I do understand those situations, and I'm not opposed to them. IMO the government has no right to tell me I can't defend myself. And I will choose how I will defend myself. A blade isn't going to do me much good against multiple armed home invaders (and the criminals will always have guns). For some of you, maybe, but for me, the odds will not be in my favor.

    What I don't understand is my acquaintance's naive belief that he will be shown mercy because supposedly he "didn't know the law."

    When the time is right, I'll gently ask him if he is unable to get a permit due to some issue in his past. If that isn't the issue, I will try to learn more about his mindset, whether he indeed is trusting in the "naive card" or the "mercy card". I plan to print out a local CCW class info and give to him. Then I'll give him the printout of sentencing info for carrying illegally. Then I'll leave him alone and let him make his own decision.

    Ultimately, we are all responsible for our own choices. I'll try to help him because I care about him, but in the end, I'll respect his right to make his own decisions.

    We can help some people, but we cannot help those who refuse to be helped.

    OTOH, in the end, if I am killed because some jackass tried to confiscate my weapons, and my friend is alive and armed because he wasn't on a list, then perhaps he made the right decisions all along.

    The day the federal government--men and women who are flesh and blood just like me--determines that I cannot be armed to protect myself and my family, that is the day I plan to tell each and every one of them that they can kiss my .

    It's always a crap shoot when I type early in the morning or late at night because my internal filters are either too groggy or too tired to function well. But that's how I feel about it all. I refuse to live under oppression. I don't need Big Brother telling me when it's time for lunch or recess, nor do I need to raise my hand for permission to speak. I was born a free man, and I'll die a free man. Screw the government if they try to interfere. Yeh I said it--yeh I mean it. Our government makes me sick.

    Maybe they need to be reminded what America is all about, or at least what we once were.

    grady--a throwback to 1776, who should have gone to bed three hours ago

  12. #72
    Ex Member Array United93's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Maine
    Posts
    911
    Quote Originally Posted by grady View Post
    I could actually understand if someone refused to get a CCW permit because they didn't want to be on a list if confiscations begin. Such a strategy still carries risk, but many of us assume risk on some level anyway.

    I also understand those who say they shouldn't need a permit because the 2A is all they need. Still carries risk, but that position I do understand.

    I also understand someone carrying without a permit if some past misdeed prevents them from getting a permit: the old adage "better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6." If the choice is possibly a prison term or possibly being killed/your family being killed, I understand carrying anyway.

    I do understand those situations, and I'm not opposed to them. IMO the government has no right to tell me I can't defend myself. And I will choose how I will defend myself. A blade isn't going to do me much good against multiple armed home invaders (and the criminals will always have guns). For some of you, maybe, but for me, the odds will not be in my favor.

    What I don't understand is my acquaintance's naive belief that he will be shown mercy because supposedly he "didn't know the law."

    When the time is right, I'll gently ask him if he is unable to get a permit due to some issue in his past. If that isn't the issue, I will try to learn more about his mindset, whether he indeed is trusting in the "naive card" or the "mercy card". I plan to print out a local CCW class info and give to him. Then I'll give him the printout of sentencing info for carrying illegally. Then I'll leave him alone and let him make his own decision.

    Ultimately, we are all responsible for our own choices. I'll try to help him because I care about him, but in the end, I'll respect his right to make his own decisions.

    We can help some people, but we cannot help those who refuse to be helped.

    OTOH, in the end, if I am killed because some jackass tried to confiscate my weapons, and my friend is alive and armed because he wasn't on a list, then perhaps he made the right decisions all along.

    The day the federal government--men and women who are flesh and blood just like me--determines that I cannot be armed to protect myself and my family, that is the day I plan to tell each and every one of them that they can kiss my .

    It's always a crap shoot when I type early in the morning or late at night because my internal filters are either too groggy or too tired to function well. But that's how I feel about it all. I refuse to live under oppression. I don't need Big Brother telling me when it's time for lunch or recess, nor do I need to raise my hand for permission to speak. I was born a free man, and I'll die a free man. Screw the government if they try to interfere. Yeh I said it--yeh I mean it. Our government makes me sick.

    Maybe they need to be reminded what America is all about, or at least what we once were.

    grady--a throwback to 1776, who should have gone to bed three hours ago
    Once again, an excellent post, grady!

  13. #73
    New Member Array ooghost1oo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    1
    I realize that I'm resurrecting a post from 2009, but it's an important issue, and there's not much discussion about this stuff out there on the internet. It's even more important THESE days, where multiple states are pushing for new laws allowing for citizens legally able to carry to be able to carry concealed without a permit.

    While I don't condone illegal activity, as a normal, non-criminal dude, there is something all of you have to remember, if you can put aside your worship for the law for the sake of law:

    Our right to carry shall not be infringed. Because of our negligence and laziness, we've already allowed 'them' to take away our ability to carry concealed without a permit, which should have never happened in the first place. It's unconstitutional to infringe upon that right, and unconstitutional laws must be challenged. Some would say that such laws are null and void, but the law still has the strength to enforce it anyway, regardless of whether it's right or wrong. So we have to deal with it until it's set right (if ever).

    I tried to play by the rules and obtain a CHP here in Colorado. After jumping through some hoops because of some crap in my background, stuff that never should or would have disqualified me from the 'privilege' of carrying concealed with a government permission slip, our good sheriff denied me anyway. And never considered my appeals. And responded with an informal letter simply quoting a law that allows the sheriff to deny a permit for whatever reason he wants.

    And recently, Colorado tried to pass a 'Constitutional Carry' bill just like Arizona, Montana, Vermont, Alaska, etc., but it was killed in the Senate by a kangaroo committee assigned by a damned Liberal Senate Leader designed to kill the bill.

    So if I want to be able to protect myself, my family, and people around me, without the hassle of simply Open Carrying everywhere (which I can't do while working, when it's cold out, and in certain locales), I must resort to becoming a criminal.

    Someone once said that the only way to control free men is to make them into criminals.

    Grady, your friend is in the wrong in his approach. As many have pointed out, playing the 'ignorance of the law' card is no way to defend yourself when the chips come down. I am, however, comforted by the fact that so many people know other people that carry anyway, some no doubt because of being in similar situations that I'm in, despite such unconstitutional laws.

    I must say, after trying the legal route, and supporting the legislative route, that I've toyed with the idea that the only way to defeat this anti-gun oppression in places (like here) where the legal approach has failed to reach justice, would be to carry illegally with the idea that if eventually 'getting caught', I, or someone else in the same shoes, could take the charges (in Colorado, a Class 2 Misdemeanor) to the Supreme Court in hopes of defeating a bad law. There has been a bit of Supreme Court action regarding gun rights lately, and it's a good time for it.

    Of course, it's speculation (moderators), and I'm certainly not recommending illegal activity, or even conspiring. I've done no such thing. But as far as brainstorming goes, how else do we take back the rights that we've lost, if your particular state's legislature is populated by anti-constitutional statists?

    Food for thought.

  14. #74
    Distinguished Member Array AKsrule's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    1,387
    Quote Originally Posted by grady View Post
    I was giving a ride to an acquaintance yesterday, and the subject of guns came up.

    Anyway, he eventually turned the conversation to concealed carry, and to my surprise, he stated he does carry.

    He says not only does he not believe we should trust others to protect us, but that they can't. He believes it's up to us to protect ourselves and our families. I'm in total agreement with him so far.

    Then he tells me he doesn't believe he should get a CCW permit because if he is involved in a shooting, having a permit will indicate he should have known all the laws, whereas if he doesn't have a permit, he can claim ignorance. He feels he will receive some mercy from the prosecuting attorney and jurors because not having a CCW permit will show he hadn't been trained in the law, whereas if he had a permit, that would be proof he had been exposed to the applicable gun laws and therefore would have been expected to follow them all.

    I tried to reason with him. I told him he would face charges for carrying illegally even if it was a clear self-defense shooting, but if he had a CCW permit, he would be in the clear. But he has it stuck in his mind that he can play the "ignorance" card, and it will work out better for him.

    So close and yet so far. He's far ahead of most of the people I run across concerning self-defense and preparedness. Yet because of this one issue, he risks a gun charge and possibly prison time, all because he believes he'll be cut some slack if people think he didn't know the law.

    I can't believe his ignorance. I'll try to work on him slowly since he rejects the truth given to him straight.



    He's not "ahead" of ANYBODY - He is using his fear to rationalize his actions
    without consideration of the consequences.

    And he's NOT IGNORANT - on the contrary he has made a CONSCIOUS DECISION
    TO BREAK THE LAW in his own self interest.

    I would just call him a FOOL.

    More than that he is possibly a danger to those around him because if he
    cares not about the law , he probably doesn't care about other peoples
    rights or safety.

    .
    -------
    -SIG , it's What's for Dinner-

    know your rights!
    http://www.handgunlaw.us

    "If I walk in the woods, I feel much more comfortable carrying a gun. What if you meet a bear in the woods that's going to attack you? You shoot it."
    {Bernhard Goetz}

  15. #75
    Senior Member Array Chad Rogers's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Metro DC
    Posts
    958
    Some people still believe the earth is flat too.

Page 5 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast

Sponsored Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. 5 Ridiculous Gun Myths Everyone Believes (Thanks to Movies)
    By BlueNinjaGo in forum Off Topic & Humor Discussion
    Replies: 27
    Last Post: June 24th, 2010, 08:04 AM
  2. Permit exemptions - carrying concealed to attend a gun safety/training class
    By ProShooter in forum Defensive Carry & Tactical Training
    Replies: 30
    Last Post: December 11th, 2009, 08:56 AM
  3. Obama says he believes in the 2nd Amendment
    By mykeld in forum General Firearm Discussion
    Replies: 38
    Last Post: December 11th, 2008, 10:47 PM
  4. Your first day carrying concealed?
    By Dean407 in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 64
    Last Post: July 3rd, 2007, 02:24 PM
  5. Concealed Firearm or Concealed Weapons Permit?
    By Gary Slider in forum Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions
    Replies: 32
    Last Post: November 28th, 2006, 04:23 PM

Search tags for this page

carrying concealed weapon without permit in tennessee
,
carrying concealed without a permit
,
carrying in tennessee without permit
,
carrying without a permit tennessee
,
tennessee carry without permit
,
what happen if you get caught with a ccw in tennessee
,
what happens if you are caught carrying a concealed weapon in illinois
,
what happens if you are caught without a ccw permit
,

what happens if you carry a gun without a permit

,

what happens if you conceal a gun without a permit

,
what happens if you get caught with a concealed gun
,

which is worse getting a ccw permit or getting caught without

Click on a term to search for related topics.