Finger on trigger, afraid to handle weapon

This is a discussion on Finger on trigger, afraid to handle weapon within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Uhm, my 12 year old daughter knows better! She hasn't yet fired anything with live ammo, but she has watched my husband and I, at ...

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Thread: Finger on trigger, afraid to handle weapon

  1. #31
    Distinguished Member Array Rugergirl's Avatar
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    Uhm, my 12 year old daughter knows better!
    She hasn't yet fired anything with live ammo, but she has watched my husband and I, at the range, cleaning the guns at home and loading and unloading our carry guns.
    She has done some dry fire exercises with my very close supervision to see how she handles an UNLOADED gun. I check to see that it is unloaded, pass it to her with the action open and the barrel pointed in a safe direction. She double checks to make sure it it UNLOADED. She knows the 4 Rules, and has not had a single slip in practicing them.
    I was trained the same way at the same age and insist she learn proper habits, before she is ever allowed to to do any target shooting.
    Disclaimer: The posts made by this member are only the members opinion, not a reflection on anyone else, nor the group, and should not be cause for anyone to get their undergarments wedged in an uncomfortable position.

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  3. #32
    Member Array LAFLA's Avatar
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    Well, I agree with Rocky that we need to chill on this. My muscle memory has it that I never put my finger on the trigger of my handguns until I'm ready to pull it. It is so second nature that I've asked my wife and son to watch me because I am not conscious of that to the point that sometimes I wonder if I am, indeed, keeping my finger off. They say that I am so I feel ok about it. I also shoot skeet on occasion and have found myself bringing the shotgun up and noticing that my finger is already on the trigger. I find that troubling from my training and routine experience but understand that it is a natural action when shouldering a long gun. Muddy's avatar is a Kahr CW9 which has about a 6.5 -7 pound trigger pull. That is my routine carry gun and while I do keep my finger off the trigger when handling, I find it hard to believe a sudden startle would result in an ND. My finger is just not that strong for an involuntary muscle contraction to result in that much pull. All that said, you need to keep your finger off the trigger until you decide to shoot for the piece of mind of all concerned. By the way Muddy, did you mean "rhetoric"? Wasn't sure what "redirick" was.

  4. #33
    VIP Member Array First Sgt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Inverted99 View Post
    You sir need to re-think your unsafe/poor gun handling habits, you have no rational defense and ZERO gun safety courses advocate the unsafe/poor gun handling techniques that you practice.

    Uh....Yup...What he said!
    Sometimes in life you have to stand your ground. It's a hard lesson to learn and even most adults don't get it, but in the end only I can be responsible for my life. If faced with any type of adversity, only I can overcome it. Waiting for someone else to take responsibility is a long fruitless wait.

  5. #34
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by muddy View Post
    Now I am not saying we walk around with our finger on the trigger, come on. What I am saying is when a weapon gets shouldered or pointed more often then not the finger is inside the trigger guard.
    Mine never enters the trigger guard until it's aimed , on target, and I"m actually ready to pull the trigger.

    Why ? Because I believed like you did.... until a shotgun "went off" and I realized what everyone is telling you is absolutely true... stuff happens ..... in my case it was pointed up, so no harm and a lot of surprise. It can and probably "will " happen ... eventually. Once, is one time too many times. And that was after years of hunting, handling firearms , etc. I have never done it again..... because my finger is not in there until I'm ready to pull the trigger.

  6. #35
    Member Array coltrane59's Avatar
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    Muddy, your getting attacked on this not simply from saying you and your buddies often have your finger on the trigger when shouldering...I think you're getting attacked on this because you kind of insulted everyone's better judgment and made statements that go against common sense, modern principles of firearm safety.

    I'm talking about your final remarks in your initial post that seem to say, "I'm too smart/good for silly safety rules and anyone who follows them is just scared." Then you called everyone "good little sheep" for being conscientious...very classy. Your attitude put you in a position to receive some critical feedback.

    I don't care if you have been handling firearms since you were 10 yrs. old...especially if you have the safety discipline of a 10 yr. old beginner as well. Not saying you do...as you pointed out to another poster, we don't know you. I'm just saying it makes no difference how long you've been doing it. If it ain't done right, then fix it. Maybe old habits are hard to break, but you probably should try.

    Why? Simple logic: which discipline leads to increased safety for you and everyone around you when you're out shooting? We're not talking about bumps and bruises here, we're talking about bullets speeding along with the energy to injure or kill life instantly. Whatever fool embraces that risk and refuses to change is too irresponsible to be handling a firearm.

    Your daddy should have told you (maybe he did) to keep the booger hook off the bang switch until you're on a sure target and ready/willing to fire.

    Do yourself (and others around you) a favor, and listen to the "sheep" on this board. And next time your father in law and his boys are tinkering with your AR, do them a favor as well by sharing proper gun handling wisdom with them.

  7. #36
    Senior Member Array thebigdl86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by muddy View Post
    Now I am not saying we walk around with our finger on the trigger, come on. What I am saying is when a weapon gets shouldered or pointed more often then not the finger is inside the trigger guard.
    I am very aware of what your saying and what your saying is the wrong answer! PERIOD! Number one rule, every gun is a loaded gun!
    "Anyone worth shooting, is probably worth shooting several times."

  8. #37
    Senior Member Array PointnClick's Avatar
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    Call it a public service... a "teachable moment" for noobs, and a basic safety reminder for someone who has training but has suffered a lapse...

    If I clear a gun and hand it to someone I know is an experienced shooter like RamRod or Grady, and he checks it clear too, I could overlook a moment of finger on the trigger... but I'd probably say something anyway...

    Safety first... right, boys...?

    2 good examples of noob training: When I picked up my Sig, I showed it to my hunnee who had no experience with handguns. So I explained that she should always assume it is loaded, and always check it. I then ejected the mag and cleared the chamber.

    I then showed her how to hold it with the finger out of the guard. And within 30 seconds, she was nonchalantly pointing it at my belly button with her finger on the trigger... I gave her a little bark...

    HEY! WHY ARE YOU POINTING THAT AT ME WITH YOUR FINGER ON THE TRIGGER???

    Hasn't happened again... and we've had lots of impromptu little "clear this gun" drills where I watch how she handles it. If it's gonna be in the house, she has to know what to do with it. She's shot a few times, handling guns competently now, and we're looking at getting her a revolver...

    The second one is better... my 20 year old nephew had never held a gun before and he saw mine on my hip. I asked if he wanted to see it, and I gave him the same 1st timer's drill... and he did excellent.

    Then a month later, he was over again and I said, "Do you remember how to do it?" He took my loaded Sig and cleared it correctly and handled it very safely, sighting on things in my backyard but never touching the trigger...

    The kid's got promise... I said I'd take him shooting sometime, and he was eyeballing my AK with lust in his eyes...
    "Who is to say that I am not an instrument of karma? Indeed, who is to say that I am not the very hand of God himself, dispatched by the Almighty to smite the Philistines and hypocrites, to lay low the dishonest and corrupt, and to bust the jawbone of some jackass that so desperately deserves it?"

  9. #38
    Member Array Armorkingg's Avatar
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    Like it's been said many times here already, learning to keep your finger out of the trigger gaurd until ready to fire is good practice, and really it should be common sence. I'm guilty of breaking the rules, but a little practice goes a long ways.

  10. #39
    Member Array NativH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackeagle View Post
    Whenever you pick up a gun, handle a gun, point a gun, your finger should always automatically go into the register position: straignt, laid alongside the frame, outside the trigger guard. It should stay there until you make a conscious decision to shoot. This should become so instinctive that it's second nature. You really know that you've got good gunhandling skills when this is so ingrained that your finger goes into register when picking up an electric drill, hair dryer, or some other appliance with a pistol grip.
    Couldn't have said it better myself. My finger is always straight along the site of the slide (not touching or anywhere near the trigger guard) whenever I am handling/holstering/presschecking/etc any weapon and that muscle memory carries over to my cordless drill no less.

    When I see someone not following this simple rule, I never go around them again when/if they have a weapon. And I would never hunt with them. Involuntary muscle spasms, think of sneezing or tripping or bumping into something or.............., happen all the time. One accidental discharge is one too many. Period.
    SE Texas Patriot Guard Rider, NRA Patron, TSRA Life Member

  11. #40
    Member Array madmunky40's Avatar
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    Sooner or later Mr. Murphy will apply his laws and you could have a ND and seriously hurt an innocent person.
    "It is better to live one day as a lion than a hundred years as a sheep."
    - Italian proverb

  12. #41
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    Being a retired Marine, I would go BALLISTIC if any of my "friends" handled a weapon in that manner. No excuses for ignorance and or stupidity.

    If you did that on the firing line at the rifle range, most likely you're getting a combat boot to the head very quickly or to your shooting finger so it's broken. Not joking.

    Maybe we're fanatical in our views of firearms, but safe handling is safe handling. When we do a person to person weapon transfer, the weapon is on safe, the weapon is cleared of any live ammo, the bolt is to the rear to visually inspect the chamber for rounds, then the receiver does basically the same thing in reverse to accept.

    It's our responsibility to teach others safe handling and good safety habits to other's who may not know. I'd say 95% of all unintentional discharges are caused by shooter error or just faulty weapons handling. These are not helping us out trying to retain our rights as responsible law-abiding citizens.
    The US Marine's aren't a branch of the US Military, they're a Religion unto themselves

  13. #42
    Member Array OMEGA2669's Avatar
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    I've never put my finger on the trigger until I was ready to fire, except to de-cock pistols while pointing down range. I was taught that the first time I ever held a gun. And then again when I bought my first one with my best friend, and then again in boot camp, and again in aircrew school. I seriously thought this was one of the first rules of handling a firearm... Finger doesn't go in the triggers house until you want to shoot something. Safety first, or people get hurt and/or killed.
    AT3 (O-Level) United States Navy - NRA Life Member
    "Molan labe! Just try... I'll show you the strength of my conviction... and I'll sleep well that night..."

  14. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by LAFLA View Post
    ...and while I do keep my finger off the trigger when handling, I find it hard to believe a sudden startle would result in an ND. My finger is just not that strong for an involuntary muscle contraction to result in that much pull.
    I guess I don't understand what you are saying here... Is it that you CAN pull the trigger deliberately, slowly, and with a minimal disturbance to your sight alignment/picture when you are nice and relaxed on the range, but CAN'T pull the trigger when you are under stress, flush with adrenaline, and recieve an unexpected startle?

    The study that people have mentioned (and I wish I could find it) involved students doing force-on-force scenarios with sim rounds. Armed with DA handguns, they faced a few "bad guys" in an alley who were potentially dangerous, but it ended up that lethal force wasn't required to end the encounter. The whole time, a "homeless guy" was concealed under some trash and debris in the alley, near the students. At some point during the scenario (usually AFTER the "bad guys" had departed), the "homeless guy" would reach out and touch the student, or otherwise startle him. EVERY SINGLE ONE of the students who had their fingers on the triggers at that moment fired a round, despite the long, heave DA pull of their pistols. To say that "I can't pull the trigger" or "that's not how I react" is naive at best, dishonest at worst.

    Muddy, tell your friends to keep their fingers off of their triggers. Just because someone has been doing the wrong thing for a long time does not in any way make it less of a wrong thing.
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

  15. #44
    VIP Member Array goldshellback's Avatar
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    My favorite of the four rules is the one repeated when I'm on the firing line instructing during quals, "keep your booger-hook off the bang-switch until ready to fire" PNUT said it best,"Why give an accident the chance to happen?"

    Now, when I'm in the field hunting, my safety is engeged with my finger on the safety ready to disengage it when the time to fire arises.

    WRT showing your gun to your inlaws, did they know/check the longarm clear before placing thier 'booge-hooks' inside the trigger guard? I have done so after checking a clear and safe firearm. I'm still pretty anal about safty and when I do something like that it's a clear, deliberate, thought out action.

    It's training, habits, and experience.
    "Just getting a concealed carry permit means you haven't commited a crime yet. CCP holders commit crimes." Daniel Vice, senior attorney for the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, quoted on Fox & Friends, 8 Jul, 2008

    (Sometimes) "a fight avioded is a fight won." ... claude clay

  16. #45
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    Keep your booger hook off the bang switch til you are ready to fire
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

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