My sister's neighbor is flashing his CC gun
This is a discussion on My sister's neighbor is flashing his CC gun within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; PA is a shall issue state for LTCF ( License to Carry Firearms ) permits, with 25 states honoring that PA permit.
PA is also ...
May 4th, 2009 05:01 PM
My 2 cents...
PA is a shall issue state for LTCF ( License to Carry Firearms ) permits, with 25 states honoring that PA permit.
PA is also an Open Carry state
Your sister's neighbor was carrying concealed until he lifted his shirt ( on purpose ) and 'brandished' his weapon. That is considered intimidation.
A few good sites/forums for info on this subject:
DoD: Peace thru Superior Firepower
May 4th, 2009 05:02 PM
The answer to your questions is YES. Several other neighbors have approached my sister about this and they are equally concerned. We (Members of my family) have lived in that house for over 30 years now and this is a first. I grew up there but I moved away when I was much younger.
I would be calling the State Police to get some info on this Guy and try to find out what He is about.
Your Sister and Family members should go and get their carry permit right away to carry and protect Themselves. I beleive it is real easy for a PA res to get it and fast.
May 4th, 2009 05:04 PM
I agree with you totally. I told her with the kids, she should not wait to see if this is going to get worse and possibly escalate. She has as much right to inquire about it with LE as he "MAY" have to carry the firearm.
PA is a shall issue state for LTCF ( License to Carry Firearms ) permits
PA is also an Open Carry state
Your sister's neighbor was carrying concealed until he lifted his shirt ( on purpose ) and 'brandished' his weapon.
May 4th, 2009 05:08 PM
18 Pa.C.S. § 6106: Firearms not to be carried without a license
(a) Offense defined.--Any person who carries a firearm in any vehicle or any person who carries a firearm concealed on or about his person, except in his place of abode or fixed place of business, without a valid and lawfully issued license under this chapter commits a felony of the third degree.
I just came across this.
May 4th, 2009 05:15 PM
I mean no offense to you or your sister, but it sounds to me as if she(and the other neighbors) are unaware of the law and thus overreacting.The armed neighbor may simply not care if anyone sees his pistol. He may just be adjusting his clothing and unconcerned about perfect concealment.
Originally Posted by LeCalsey
None of the behavior you have described is illegal in Pennsylvania.
Wearing an unconcealed firearm is not brandishing.
I don't know PA OC rules but I cannot believe that what he has been doing is not brandishing
No problem ccman.
Originally Posted by ccman
May 4th, 2009 05:24 PM
While this statement is true when one has the weapon covered and then menacingly uncovers the weapon so as to intimidate that is brandishing.
Originally Posted by unloved
I do not disagree though that maybe the folks in the neighborhood are sheepish and the man just has a gun in the open on his property.
There is certainly more to the story as Farron has already stated.
May 4th, 2009 06:02 PM
Originally Posted by SHOOTER13
The word 'brandish' means to wave something(especially a weapon) around menacingly. A holstered pistol can't possibly be brandished.
Originally Posted by AllAmerican
As I stated previously, there is no law against brandishing in Pennsylvania, therefore there is no legal definition of what constitutes brandishing.
All we know here is that someone saw a holstered pistol and felt uncomfortable.
May 4th, 2009 06:05 PM
that would be brandishing, or menacing, and most likely if a police officer saw him do that depending on his demeanor, he would most likely get hemmed up. personally if someone wants to try to intimidate me by flashing there sidearm, i would be more then happy to return the favor while telling them to get on the ground
KY Concealed Carry Instructor
Taser X2/X26 Instructor
"It is the tradition that a Kentuckian never runs. He does not have to…[he] is entitled to stand his ground, and meet any (life-threatening) attack made upon him with a deadly weapon…." Gibson v. KY, 34SW936(Ky.1931)
May 4th, 2009 06:17 PM
Showing your gun to someone to intimidate them, hand on it or not is, on your property or not, is BRANDISHING.
May 4th, 2009 06:44 PM
This guy has to learn that possessing a CCW permit does not give him a sense of entitlement to do as he pleases. That type of behavior should not be tolerated. I would contact the local law enforcement agency and report him.
Originally Posted by LeCalsey
"[A]rms discourage and keep the invader and plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. . . Horrid mischief would ensue were the law-abiding deprived of the use of them."
- Thomas Paine, Thoughts On Defensive War, 1775
May 4th, 2009 06:52 PM
I'll say it again, there is no law against brandishing in Pennsylvania.
Let's say you're visiting my next door neighbor. One morning you see me walking to my truck. I lift my vest to get a good grip on my belt and pull my pants up a little. You draw on me and order me to the ground. You're now in a world of trouble because you threatened me with a loaded pistol for no reason whatsoever.
Originally Posted by Tyler11B
What evidence is there to suggest that the gun was deliberately shown to intimidate anyone?
Originally Posted by sass20485
I don't carry openly,however, I am not ashamed of the fact that I carry. I don't give a crap if my pistol prints or my concealment garment rides up(or blows open, or I have to take it off for a minute, or whatever) and it gets exposed. I don't worry about it because I don't have to.
May 4th, 2009 07:31 PM
Maybe not brandishing, but what about terroristic threatening?
§ 2706. Terroristic threats.
a.Offense defined. A person commits the crime of terroristic threats if the person communicates, either directly or indirectly, a threat to: commit any crime of violence with intent to terrorize another; cause evacuation of a building, place of assembly, or facility of public transportation; or otherwise cause serious public inconvenience, or cause terror or serious public inconvenience with reckless disregard of the risk of causing such terror or inconvenience.
e.Definition.--As used in this section, the term "communicates" means conveys in person or by written or electronic means, including telephone, electronic mail, Internet, facsimile, telex and similar transmissions.
Terroristic threats - 18 Pa. Cons. Stat. § 2706 - Pennsylvania Attorney Resources - Pennsylvania Laws
If there are several neighbors with the same experiences as those described above this could apply. I think that would greatly depend on LEO and their interpretation. I agree the best course would be to start with an inquiry with the State Police.
Good luck, I sure it's tough being your familly and not being there to help.
May 4th, 2009 07:41 PM
The problem here is that the view of LE will be just as different as it is here on this forum depending on which one shows up..
I lived in Pittsburgh for about the first 18 years of my life. I now live in Texas. Open carry is allowed in all but Philadelphia without LTCF, as unloved has mentioned, and concealed carry is allowed without LTCF on your own property.
Although I believe this guy is trying to intimidate, it may depend on the LEO if it's brandishing or not. His "story" may be that he was walking up to say hello, adjusted his shirt or pants and the gun showed, so he turned around to take the gun back to the house or was embarrassed and went inside.
It may be that he feels powerful and likes to show his gun to whomever is looking in his direction and feels that's within the law being on his property. To me, that is brandishing.
I had a Corpus Christi police officer tell me it was illegal to carry in ANY convenience store in Corpus Christi and I would be tackled from behind if I was printing, put in an arm-bar and taken to jail. The senior officer quickly shut him up, but his still said it and believed it! (For the record, this is absolutely wrong, there was no consumption of alcohol on the premise and there was no 30-06 sign. I mentioned in passing to Jim Kaelin (sheriff elect) and he said it needs reported to the Chief of Police and City Manager, who I do photography for, but that's a whole 'nother story!)
So, depending on the officer, it may go in her favor, or in his. Either way, there will still be a record of the call, and to me, that's the most important part. Next time, if your sister or brother-in-law needs to "stop" him from showing his gun again, there will be a record of the "perceived threat"..
For me, when I'm in my yard, I may be wearing jeans and a tank top in this Texas heat. It's a very good chance my shirt will ride up and expose my 1911. I don't care. But, there's always people going for a walk, so just to be nice, I try to check if I see them coming. If it is up, I'll pull my shirt down and give them a wave. They always do the same.
Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe
May 4th, 2009 08:06 PM
Why don't you ask him why he is showing an (presumed) unarmed woman his gun?
May 4th, 2009 08:16 PM
It's rare enough that the bureaucracy can work for us, I would definitely file a report and start a paper trail. If they are truly worried about repercussions, can they file a report anonymously? This might lessen the impact of the report, or give it less weight in the laws eye's, but something's gotta be better than nothing.
If he's just out for attention, treat him like the child he is and ignore him.
The ultimate result of shielding men from the effects of folly is to fill the world with fools.
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