My sister's neighbor is flashing his CC gun

This is a discussion on My sister's neighbor is flashing his CC gun within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; PA is a shall issue state for LTCF ( License to Carry Firearms ) permits, with 25 states honoring that PA permit. PA is also ...

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Thread: My sister's neighbor is flashing his CC gun

  1. #46
    Member Array SHOOTER13's Avatar
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    Exclamation My 2 cents...

    PA is a shall issue state for LTCF ( License to Carry Firearms ) permits, with 25 states honoring that PA permit.

    PA is also an Open Carry state

    Your sister's neighbor was carrying concealed until he lifted his shirt ( on purpose ) and 'brandished' his weapon. That is considered intimidation.



    A few good sites/forums for info on this subject:

    paopencarry.org/PennsylvaniaGunRights.pdf

    pafoa.org

    handgunlaw.us/states/pennsylvania.pdf

    acslpa.org/pa_uniform_firearms_act.htm
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  3. #47
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    The answer to your questions is YES. Several other neighbors have approached my sister about this and they are equally concerned. We (Members of my family) have lived in that house for over 30 years now and this is a first. I grew up there but I moved away when I was much younger.

    I would be calling the State Police to get some info on this Guy and try to find out what He is about.
    Your Sister and Family members should go and get their carry permit right away to carry and protect Themselves. I beleive it is real easy for a PA res to get it and fast.

  4. #48
    Senior Member Array LeCalsey's Avatar
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    PA is a shall issue state for LTCF ( License to Carry Firearms ) permits

    PA is also an Open Carry state

    Your sister's neighbor was carrying concealed until he lifted his shirt ( on purpose ) and 'brandished' his weapon.
    I agree with you totally. I told her with the kids, she should not wait to see if this is going to get worse and possibly escalate. She has as much right to inquire about it with LE as he "MAY" have to carry the firearm.
    2A is not negotiable

  5. #49
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    18 Pa.C.S. § 6106: Firearms not to be carried without a license
    (a) Offense defined.--Any person who carries a firearm in any vehicle or any person who carries a firearm concealed on or about his person, except in his place of abode or fixed place of business, without a valid and lawfully issued license under this chapter commits a felony of the third degree.
    ...

    I just came across this.

  6. #50
    Senior Member Array unloved's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeCalsey View Post

    The answer to your questions is YES. Several other neighbors have approached my sister about this and they are equally concerned. We (Members of my family) have lived in that house for over 30 years now and this is a first. I grew up there but I moved away when I was much younger.
    I mean no offense to you or your sister, but it sounds to me as if she(and the other neighbors) are unaware of the law and thus overreacting.The armed neighbor may simply not care if anyone sees his pistol. He may just be adjusting his clothing and unconcerned about perfect concealment.
    None of the behavior you have described is illegal in Pennsylvania.

    I don't know PA OC rules but I cannot believe that what he has been doing is not brandishing
    Wearing an unconcealed firearm is not brandishing.



    Quote Originally Posted by ccman View Post

    unloved. Thank You for the update. CCMAN.
    No problem ccman.

  7. #51
    VIP Member Array AllAmerican's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unloved View Post

    Wearing an unconcealed firearm is not brandishing.
    While this statement is true when one has the weapon covered and then menacingly uncovers the weapon so as to intimidate that is brandishing.

    I do not disagree though that maybe the folks in the neighborhood are sheepish and the man just has a gun in the open on his property.

    There is certainly more to the story as Farron has already stated.
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  8. #52
    Senior Member Array unloved's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SHOOTER13 View Post
    Your sister's neighbor was carrying concealed until he lifted his shirt ( on purpose ) and 'brandished' his weapon. That is considered intimidation.
    Quote Originally Posted by AllAmerican View Post
    While this statement is true when one has the weapon covered and then menacingly uncovers the weapon so as to intimidate that is brandishing.
    The word 'brandish' means to wave something(especially a weapon) around menacingly. A holstered pistol can't possibly be brandished.

    As I stated previously, there is no law against brandishing in Pennsylvania, therefore there is no legal definition of what constitutes brandishing.

    All we know here is that someone saw a holstered pistol and felt uncomfortable.

  9. #53
    Senior Member Array Tyler11B's Avatar
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    that would be brandishing, or menacing, and most likely if a police officer saw him do that depending on his demeanor, he would most likely get hemmed up. personally if someone wants to try to intimidate me by flashing there sidearm, i would be more then happy to return the favor while telling them to get on the ground
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  10. #54
    VIP Member Array sass20485's Avatar
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    Showing your gun to someone to intimidate them, hand on it or not is, on your property or not, is BRANDISHING.

  11. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeCalsey View Post
    My parents are down visiting for the weekend. My mother tells me about a situation with my sister and their "odd" neighbor. Over the last weekend, my sister and her husband were on the side lot clearing overgrown ivy. The neighbor comes out of the hous and pulls up his shirt to show them his CC handgun as if to say don't mess with me. Evidently this was not the first occasion.

    Question: Is that considered brandishing in PA? I don't think it would be here in Florida as his hand was never on the gun. It is a grey area here because of the intimidation tactic though. Anyone know the answer in PA?

    I want to give here some advise and my gut tells me she shoud inform a LEO and file a complaint. My mother is worried about an escallation of hostility and what appears to be an unstable CC(?) individual.

    Thoughts and suggestions please
    This guy has to learn that possessing a CCW permit does not give him a sense of entitlement to do as he pleases. That type of behavior should not be tolerated. I would contact the local law enforcement agency and report him.
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  12. #56
    Senior Member Array unloved's Avatar
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    I'll say it again, there is no law against brandishing in Pennsylvania.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tyler11B View Post
    that would be brandishing, or menacing, and most likely if a police officer saw him do that depending on his demeanor, he would most likely get hemmed up. personally if someone wants to try to intimidate me by flashing there sidearm, i would be more then happy to return the favor while telling them to get on the ground
    Let's say you're visiting my next door neighbor. One morning you see me walking to my truck. I lift my vest to get a good grip on my belt and pull my pants up a little. You draw on me and order me to the ground. You're now in a world of trouble because you threatened me with a loaded pistol for no reason whatsoever.
    Quote Originally Posted by sass20485 View Post
    Showing your gun to someone to intimidate them, hand on it or not is, on your property or not, is BRANDISHING.
    What evidence is there to suggest that the gun was deliberately shown to intimidate anyone?


    I don't carry openly,however, I am not ashamed of the fact that I carry. I don't give a crap if my pistol prints or my concealment garment rides up(or blows open, or I have to take it off for a minute, or whatever) and it gets exposed. I don't worry about it because I don't have to.

  13. #57
    Member Array dtweeks's Avatar
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    Maybe not brandishing, but what about terroristic threatening?

    PA Law,

    § 2706. Terroristic threats.

    a.Offense defined. A person commits the crime of terroristic threats if the person communicates, either directly or indirectly, a threat to: commit any crime of violence with intent to terrorize another; cause evacuation of a building, place of assembly, or facility of public transportation; or otherwise cause serious public inconvenience, or cause terror or serious public inconvenience with reckless disregard of the risk of causing such terror or inconvenience.
    .....
    e.Definition.--As used in this section, the term "communicates" means conveys in person or by written or electronic means, including telephone, electronic mail, Internet, facsimile, telex and similar transmissions.

    Terroristic threats - 18 Pa. Cons. Stat. § 2706 - Pennsylvania Attorney Resources - Pennsylvania Laws

    If there are several neighbors with the same experiences as those described above this could apply. I think that would greatly depend on LEO and their interpretation. I agree the best course would be to start with an inquiry with the State Police.

    Good luck, I sure it's tough being your familly and not being there to help.

  14. #58
    VIP Member Array jonconsiglio's Avatar
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    The problem here is that the view of LE will be just as different as it is here on this forum depending on which one shows up..

    I lived in Pittsburgh for about the first 18 years of my life. I now live in Texas. Open carry is allowed in all but Philadelphia without LTCF, as unloved has mentioned, and concealed carry is allowed without LTCF on your own property.

    Although I believe this guy is trying to intimidate, it may depend on the LEO if it's brandishing or not. His "story" may be that he was walking up to say hello, adjusted his shirt or pants and the gun showed, so he turned around to take the gun back to the house or was embarrassed and went inside.

    It may be that he feels powerful and likes to show his gun to whomever is looking in his direction and feels that's within the law being on his property. To me, that is brandishing.

    I had a Corpus Christi police officer tell me it was illegal to carry in ANY convenience store in Corpus Christi and I would be tackled from behind if I was printing, put in an arm-bar and taken to jail. The senior officer quickly shut him up, but his still said it and believed it! (For the record, this is absolutely wrong, there was no consumption of alcohol on the premise and there was no 30-06 sign. I mentioned in passing to Jim Kaelin (sheriff elect) and he said it needs reported to the Chief of Police and City Manager, who I do photography for, but that's a whole 'nother story!)

    So, depending on the officer, it may go in her favor, or in his. Either way, there will still be a record of the call, and to me, that's the most important part. Next time, if your sister or brother-in-law needs to "stop" him from showing his gun again, there will be a record of the "perceived threat"..

    For me, when I'm in my yard, I may be wearing jeans and a tank top in this Texas heat. It's a very good chance my shirt will ride up and expose my 1911. I don't care. But, there's always people going for a walk, so just to be nice, I try to check if I see them coming. If it is up, I'll pull my shirt down and give them a wave. They always do the same.
    Proven combat techniques may not be flashy and may require a bit more physical effort on the part of the shooter. Further, they may not win competition matches, but they will help ensure your survival in a shooting or gunfight on the street. ~Paul Howe

  15. #59
    New Member Array tbare's Avatar
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    Why don't you ask him why he is showing an (presumed) unarmed woman his gun?

    t_bare

  16. #60
    Distinguished Member Array lacrosse50's Avatar
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    It's rare enough that the bureaucracy can work for us, I would definitely file a report and start a paper trail. If they are truly worried about repercussions, can they file a report anonymously? This might lessen the impact of the report, or give it less weight in the laws eye's, but something's gotta be better than nothing.

    If he's just out for attention, treat him like the child he is and ignore him.
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