My sister's neighbor is flashing his CC gun - Page 6

My sister's neighbor is flashing his CC gun

This is a discussion on My sister's neighbor is flashing his CC gun within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Here's another possibility... the gun is in fact an airsoft look alike and the guy is getting a good laugh with the over reaction. The ...

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Thread: My sister's neighbor is flashing his CC gun

  1. #76
    Member Array crankshop1000's Avatar
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    Here's another possibility... the gun is in fact an airsoft look alike and the guy is getting a good laugh with the over reaction. The intimidation factor would still be there,with no real danger or violations.


  2. #77
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeCalsey View Post
    The neighbor comes out of the hous and pulls up his shirt to show them his CC handgun as if to say don't mess with me. Evidently this was not the first occasion.
    There's carrying concealed. There's carrying openly. Then, there's what you're describing: flashing a gun, visibly, in a manner that strongly appears to all people present to be menacing/intimidation.

    If this is being done to intimidate, then it almost certainly is brandishing/menacing, sure. Your family members are all apparently reading this the same way, so there is corroboration already.

    If all he's doing is making unthinking adjustments to a holster, then it's merely coincidence that anyone's around. But if he's doing it while maintaining eye contact and strictly when your family members come out of the house, and if he makes clear motion to present, then it's bloody hard to explain it away as a nervous tick.

    Ditto on keeping a written log, starting the calls to police. This putz needs to be spoken with, by police, about his aberrant behavior. Yes, he may take it out on you, and yes that may put your lives at risk. So, you'll need to be comfortable with the potential ramifications of sending police his direction.

    Suggestion: Perhaps videocam evidence would support your case.
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  3. #78
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    Well, they are going to have a difficult time proving that his actions were threatening.

    What if they reported him to the police and he just said:

    "Hey, I was on my own property pulling weeds and it was hot that day and I only lifted my shirt up because I was sweaty & overheated."
    "If they happened to see my gun when I pulled my shirt up then that's their problem...I didn't threaten anybody and I was on my own property."

    It would be their word against his since they have no proof and by their own admission he did nothing but expose his firearm on his own property.

    Certainly not normal but, probably not illegal either.
    If the same thing happened out on the street as part of a "road rage" incident then that would be a whole different story.


    Your Sister would be asked if she was verbally threatened in any way and would have to honestly answer "No."

    If he was on his own property then he does not need a PA License To Carry concealed or open on his own property.

    Your Sis could have a complete investigative background check done on the guy for $40.00 or $50.00 and if the neighbor turns out to be a Convicted Felon or any other sort of person person prohibited from owning a firearm in Pennsylvania then they "MIGHT" have a case if they could video him actually with a prohibited firearm on his person.

    I say "Might" because they would say that he flashed a gun and the police would ask him if he did...and he simply could say "No, I Didn't." or "It was just an "AirSoft" pistol and." and that would still not give Police grounds for a search warrant to search his home.


    That all sounds "well & good" and the Police would probably confiscate his firearm and he would likely be "out" until his trial date and your Mom would be stuck with an extremely POed crazy person on her hands who is all upset because your Sister was responsible for having his gun taken away from him. So...now...he does not have a gun but, he goes after her with a baseball bat.

    That's not a very good scenario either.


    The question that I really want to ask is:

    How far does your Sister really want to get into this if the guy really is a screwball with a gun?"

    Is she trained in personal self defense or hand to hand combat?
    Is she wealthy enough to hire a "round the clock" personal bodyguard?

    If the guy is a true nut-case then she is better off not getting involved unless she is willing to suffer the possible consequences of ticking off a whack job.

    You know the old saying: You can be 100% right and still get dead for it.

    My advice would be for her to pay $10.00 or $20.00 and hire some kid to yank her weeds for her and just avoid the guy untill she gets a fence installed.

    Privacy fences are GREAT also and as a "plus" usually add to the value of a home.

    The best neighbors are often the ones that you never see.

    Have her call Sears or someplace like that and have a good sturdy and tall Privacy fence installed.
    Just make sure that the fence line is on her own property.



    Then the guy can stay on his own property and flash himself to his hearts content and your Sister can pull the weeds on her own side of the fence.

  4. #79
    Senior Member Array LeCalsey's Avatar
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    Exclamation

    Wow! I did not plan on getting this much feedback but I sure appreciate everything.

    Update: I had a long talk with her on the phone last night. She is going to call the PA State Police to inquire about this individual and the legalities of his actions. She has two kids and has ignored the "unfriendly" actions and displays long enough. I told her she has as much right to know who her neighbor is and IF he is legally carrying a CC weapon as he does to have it. By her statement, it was an illegal display with the intent to intimidate.....that is unlawful but as people stated, hard to prove.

    After my conversation with her last evening, I feel like this may be PART sheep reaction on her part for the prior "sightings" but the latest event was absolutely not a sheep reaction. She admits that she has seen the gun on him at times while on his way out to work or whatever. I told her that PA is OC and that like it or not, she can't do anything about that.

    However, this last even was not of that sort and it was a deliberate visual (No words spoken) threat on his part. The "MAN" stood in front of my sister and her husband, deliberately uncovered his CC handgun while staring at them from his property, stood there gun exposed for about 30 seconds, turned and walked away. That display was for intimidation only and no other reasons accidental or otherwise. It is BS and he will be getting some heat for it.

    My sister and my family all know how I feel about 2A and CC and are all supportive of the process, but this is also why they are asking me for advice. Every member of my family, as spread out as we are, still own guns and use and practice as much as time and $$ allow. This nut IMO should have his rights revoked.

    I live and have lived with unfriendly neighbors before and I would never dream of pulling a stunt like this with any one of them. LE would be there in an instant and it is a fairly predictable response for behavior like that. Menacing is menacing.....bottom line.

    Unloved mentioned the OC position and was defending it on several occasions. I am originally from SE PA and lived ther until I was 22. I have OC in PA as well but it was never like what my sister and her husband described to me and will be describing to PA State Police. As stated before, I support CC and OC whenever and wherever it is legal but this situated crossed the line of lawful carry IMO
    2A is not negotiable

  5. #80
    Senior Member Array cagueits's Avatar
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    +1 on what QK Shooter said.

    Other than that, coordinate with your other neighbors and have a LEO swing by when they get some down time and all of you go talk to the neighbor about the matter - the LEO just there for safety's sake. Just let the neighbor know what you perceive he is doing wrong with his actions and have the LEO document the meeting. Other than that, all of you are gona have to file a complaint/sworn statements before a LEO/magistrate regarding the guy being mentally incompetent/doing illegal behavior, go before a magistrate to get a protection order and removal of his firearms. Then the guy will loose it and eventually someone will suffer damages/go to jail/the morgue.

  6. #81
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    Good I hope it all works out ok. Keep us posted.

  7. #82
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    Everyone has an opinion here, and I agree with most - this is threatening behavior and not legal - it matters not which law the DA would pull off the books if they decide to prosecute this loon.

    However, I really suspect we are not hearing the whole story. It may be the OP doesn't know the whole story. Even a nutty and/or aggressive neighbor is unlikely to begin trying to intimidate the neighbors simply for pulling weeds on their own property.

    I'll wager a c-note there is a history here of which we are unaware.

    In any case, threatening your neighbors with a gun (whether it is waved at them or tucked in your pants) is NOT proper social behavior. It is also not legal regardless of your state laws.

    A "he said, she said" situation could certainly develop, but in this day and age, I would have a video trained on me if I needed to go pull weeds.

    ...plus, I'd be armed.

  8. #83
    Senior Member Array Phillep Harding's Avatar
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    Lots of states post court records online, along with some types of criminal convictions. She should try to look him up on the net.

  9. #84
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    Where in PA is she?

  10. #85
    Senior Member Array LeCalsey's Avatar
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    Lancaster to be exact. Its my hometown too. I have a bunch of family up there throughout the region
    2A is not negotiable

  11. #86
    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
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    LeCalsey,

    In an earlier post you said that this has been going on for several years, and other neighbors have seen the guy with the gun. This is your family home if I remember correctly so either your mom or your sister has lived there since the guy has moved in, several years ago.

    What is their history. You don't live next door to someone for several years and not talk to them at least casually. Somebody in the neighborhood has to have gotten to know this guy at least a little. You also said that your sister has seen him carry his gun when going to work on previous occasions. Never before has he "flashed" her.

    Again, I have to ask what the history is between this guy and the rest of the neighborhood. Is he generally just the guy that is disliked because he doesn't keep his yard up? Or is he the guy that doesn't like the kids playing in his yard? Maybe he has an old heap of a car parked in the road or driveway that is an eyesore. The old single guy in a neighborhood that otherwise consists of family units

    We all have or have had neighbors that for some reason or another have rubbed us the wrong way and begin to simply dislike them for some reason without even really knowing who they are. Maybe your sister or other neighbors have talked about his carrying a gun and how uncomfortable they are with it and word has gotten back around to the "odd" neighbor so he was just trying to make a point or play on their fears.

    For now, I am going to have to stand by my previous post in that there is more to this story than we are getting reported in the thread. A guy doesn't live in a neighborhood for several years and go around flashing his gun for that length of time without something happening.

    I wish her all the luck with the state police, but like QKShooter has said, this may be a can of worms that is hard to get back under control after the leo's start poking around.

    I do have one final question. Why didn't your sister or her husband ask if they could help him or make some other comment while he was standing there intimidating them with his gun exposed? I know I would have, then I would be certain of what the intent was or what the persons beef was with me.
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  12. #87
    New Member Array yetidave's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeCalsey View Post
    Lancaster to be exact. Its my hometown too. I have a bunch of family up there throughout the region
    Yeah, dealing with the local cops out there would be a waste of time. I have a good friend who is a trooper stationed out there.

  13. #88
    Member Array NoNameMan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadMac View Post
    Everyone has an opinion here, and I agree with most - this is threatening behavior and not legal - it matters not which law the DA would pull off the books if they decide to prosecute this loon.

    However, I really suspect we are not hearing the whole story. It may be the OP doesn't know the whole story. Even a nutty and/or aggressive neighbor is unlikely to begin trying to intimidate the neighbors simply for pulling weeds on their own property.

    I'll wager a c-note there is a history here of which we are unaware.

    In any case, threatening your neighbors with a gun (whether it is waved at them or tucked in your pants) is NOT proper social behavior. It is also not legal regardless of your state laws.

    A "he said, she said" situation could certainly develop, but in this day and age, I would have a video trained on me if I needed to go pull weeds.

    ...plus, I'd be armed.
    +1 Especially the part about past history. It seems weird that someone would threaten their neighbor unprovoked. I'm not saying that it can't happen.

    As I understand it, and I'm not a lawyer, the neighbor can be charged with Disorderly Conduct or Terroristic Threats, even if he is on his own property. Since he can CC and OC on his own property, it is does not matter if he has a LTCF or not, as long as he can legally own it. The issue here is that he purposely exposed his gun in a threatening manner. This can be construed as Disorderly Conduct or a Terroristic Threat.

    From PAOCDO
    § 5503. Disorderly conduct.

    1. Offense defined. -- A person is guilty of disorderly conduct if, with intent to cause public inconvenience, annoyance or alarm, or recklessly creating a risk thereof, he:
    1. engages in fighting or threatening, or in violent or tumultuous behavior;
    2. makes unreasonable noise;
    3. uses obscene language, or makes an obscene gesture; or
    4. creates a hazardous or physically offensive condition by any act which serves no legitimate purpose of the actor.

    § 2706. Terroristic threats.

    1. Offense defined. A person commits the crime of terroristic threats if the person communicates, either directly or indirectly, a threat to: commit any crime of violence with intent to terrorize another; cause evacuation of a building, place of assembly, or facility of public transportation; or otherwise cause serious public inconvenience, or cause terror or serious public inconvenience with reckless disregard of the risk of causing such terror or inconvenience.
    2. Definition. -- As used in this section, the term "communicates" means conveys in person or by written or electronic means, including telephone, electronic mail, Internet, facsimile, telex and similar transmissions.
    I hope that this turns out well, and that your sister and her family stay safe. I think getting the PSP involved is a good idea.
    "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

  14. #89
    Senior Member Array LeCalsey's Avatar
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    You don't live next door to someone for several years and not talk to them at least casually. Somebody in the neighborhood has to have gotten to know this guy at least a little. You also said that your sister has seen him carry his gun when going to work on previous occasions. Never before has he "flashed" her.
    I asked her that very question. The answer is that he is either deaf or outright (standoffish) rude. My sister has gone out of her way to say "Hi" and "How are you this morning" to this spud only to be ignored. She was raised right and knows how to be firendly and polite. He has ignored her and her husband as well as all of the other neighbors. Nobody knows him, his wife or GF or their kid. Odd I think after that long living in a home like that. I know that people can be that way (Especially in PA) and so does she. Some people are just not firendly. That I can accept and so can she. What he has been doing lately is not right though.....PA OC laws or not
    2A is not negotiable

  15. #90
    Senior Member Array highvoltage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by farronwolf View Post
    .....You don't live next door to someone for several years and not talk to them at least casually.......
    We've lived in our neighborhood for 26 years. I've probably said 10 words to the clown who lives behind us. I was warned about him when we moved in. The people we bought the house from said he was very strange, rude, and obnoxious.

    I figured, well I'll at least give it a try. Yeah, right! We had a bonfire one summer to celebrate our daughter's graduation from high school (fires are legal in NH if you have a permit, which we did). We had a bunch of people there, adults, children, all having a good time.

    The wind shifted and the smoke blew towards his property (sorry, I can't control the wind). He's on his side of the fence (which he put up) yelling across "You're a f$^&ing a@#hole!" I told him to watch his language, there are children over here. He said, "You're still an a@#hole!" Whatever.

    The fire department showed up (of course he called them). But since I had a permit I was perfectly legal. To show you how concerned they were they sent him out in a Ford Bronco. He looked at the fire and said "Looks like a good night for a bonfire, have fun," and walked away.

    So, yes there are people like that everywhere. You just don't want to associate with them. They keep to themselves, and I'm fine with that. I don't talk to him, he doesn't talk to me (except for occassional yelling).

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