This is a discussion on A Card In My Wallet within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; The key point to remember is that YOU ARE THE VICTIM. You are the one shaken by the trama that just occurred to you. You ...
The key point to remember is that YOU ARE THE VICTIM. You are the one shaken by the trama that just occurred to you. You are sickened by what has just happened. If possible, lose control of your bladder and expose the contents of your stomach. "Please officer, take my firearm" while trembling is your best bet. (NEVER USE THE TERM WEAPON) You have to convince the officer that the victim is still standing and the perp is dead on the ground.
Standing up spouting off like a ambulance chaser will do nothing but hurt you in the impending court case.
NRA Instructor
NRA Endowment Member
Be a mentor to the youth of our communities.
Show them the way to shoot for the moon.
If they miss, push them to reach out for a star.
If any gang banger punks try to divert their attention...
show them the light as well.
I agree with the fundamental idea (don't go spilling your guts to the cops after a shooting), but I think the card is a bad idea.
John Farnam teaches the following phrases for interacting with the police after a shooting:
"Thank god you're here!"
"I'm the one who called."
"That man tried to murder us."
"I'll be happy to speak with you after I've had a chance to consult with my lawyer."
Bingo! Anything other than this is not going to help you.Originally Posted by Blackeagle
He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose. - Jim Elliott
The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it.
Albert Einstein
This thread directly deals with that issue - http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulle...neys-cops.html
These others do as well:
http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulle...ce-merged.html This one has a good overview of the rules of evidence which come into play when making statements to the police. (I know this because I posted it...)
http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulle...-must-see.html
The simple answer: Card bad. Silence good. Lawyer good. Talk & no lawyer = bad.
But make your own choice. I no longer care.
I used to, but then I realized that actually practicing criminal law is no substitute for making a poorly informed choice based on reading things off the internet.
If you want actual information to help you make up your mind, try Getoffthex.com or totalprotectioninteractive.com and look in the legal sections of those boards. (Be warned, people may use foul language and be more blunt than you are used to here...but that's only because they care more about getting correct information out than someone's feelings.)
I don't think that I'd present the card but I'd definitely adhere to it's statements, shut up and lawyer up.
I researched this on the internet and found the following to be very good information on how to handle the aftermath of a SD shooting:
http://www.aware.org/arttruelaw/miranda.pdf
Thanks for the advice.
Law enforcement officers deal with "jailhouse lawyers" all the time in the course of their daily duties.
If you pull out this card and start reciting your rights, it will guarantee that you will be treated as one. You want the police on your side, you don't want to alienate them against you right off the bat.
There are much better ways to assert your rights, as many others have said.
When you’re wounded and left on Afghanistan’s plains,
And the women come out to cut up what remains,
Just roll to your rifle and blow out your brains,
And go to your God like a soldier.
Rudyard Kipling
Terry
This is a touchy subject to begin with. Do you or don't you talk to the police. The card would not go in your favor even if you were within your rights to use your gun. You are better off saying nothing then saying what is on that card.
I think having something to hand the officer in the event that you're too shaken to speak clearly and keep your mouth shoot is a good idea. However I feel that the OP's statement is very harsh and comes off in a bad light. This is what I keep in my wallet.
Dear Officer: If i have given this to you, I have unfortunately had to do what was necessary to defend innocent life. I am willing to sign a criminal complaint against the perpetrators. I will point out witnesses and evidence.
As you may have experienced yourself, this is a stressful and traumatic experience for me. Therefore, I wish to make no further statements until I have contacted my attorney and composed myself. I also do not consent to any searches. I will cooperate fully once I have consulted with an attorney and calmed down. As a lawfully armed citizen, I ask for the same courtesy that you would show a fellow officer who was involved in a similar situation.
Thank you
[My attorneys contact information (including 24-hour #) are on the back]
"In God we trust, as for the rest of you... keep your hands where I can see them" - Unknown
The general consensus of the foregoing comments is correct.
1. The card is a bad idea. It has a "premeditated" smell about it that, as an attorney, I would not like to see any of my clients carrying and it could easily prejudice less-informed/enlightened LEOs against you;
2. If, God forbid, you ever are in such a situation, you should talk to the police only enough to tell them who you are, where you live, and that you intend to cooperate with them fully, but that you are not ready to make a statement of any kind until you are in a calmer state of mind and have consulted with an attorney--if they press at all, say firmly, "I will cooperate fully after I have consulted with an attorney. Please do not ask me any more questions." A competent and professional LEO not only will respect this request, but would make the same request if/when s/he is involved in a shooting.
If you begin talking--even to tell your "side" of the story--remember that anything you say "can and will be used against you." A prosecutor or tort lawyer for the "poor victim" (i.e., the BG you just shot) will take whatever you say and turn it against you somehow. Wait. Slow down. Calm down. And talk to a good lawyer. Then, with your lawyer at your side, cooperate fully with the investigation. You will be glad that you did.
SMOTTA,
What you have done by presenting a form letter to him/her is to tell hi/her that you use of your firearm was premeditated. Go talk to a criminal defense lawyer and ask him/her what he/she would suggest you do. I don't think you find one that suggests that you carry such a note.
NRA Instructor
NRA Endowment Member
Be a mentor to the youth of our communities.
Show them the way to shoot for the moon.
If they miss, push them to reach out for a star.
If any gang banger punks try to divert their attention...
show them the light as well.
18-4009. JUSTIFIABLE HOMICIDE BY ANY PERSON. Homicide is also justifiable when committed by any person in either of the following cases:
1. When resisting any attempt to murder any person, or to commit a felony, or to do some great bodily injury upon any person; or,
2. When committed in defense of habitation, property or person, against one who manifestly intends or endeavors, by violence or surprise, to commit a felony, or against one who manifestly intends and endeavors, in a violent, riotous or tumultuous manner, to enter the habitation of another for the purpose of offering violence to any person therein; or,
3. When committed in the lawful defense of such person, or of a wife or husband, parent, child, master, mistress or servant of such person, when there is reasonable ground to apprehend a design to commit a felony or to do some great bodily injury, and imminent danger of such design being accomplished;
but such person, or the person in whose behalf the defense was made, if he was the assailant or engaged in mortal combat, must really and in good faith have endeavored to decline any further struggle before the homicide was committed; or,
4. When necessarily committed in attempting, by lawful ways and means, to apprehend any person for any felony committed, or in lawfully suppressing any riot, or in lawfully keeping and preserving the peace.
I say...forget making up pieces of paper to hand LEO's after you've shot someone whilst defending yourself or those around you. Know the law and make sure you stay within it. If you can't, make sure you drag the body back into your yard or home after you've dispatched the perp...dead, dead, dead.
Having been in two situations where I discharged my handgun and having faced
the Inspectors from headquarters who investigated both shootings, my advice is forget any card in your wallet. You will be in a state of disbelief over what just transpired. Hopefully you will be able to honestly say you were "in fear of losing your life", or your partner or family member's lives "were in eminent danger". Beyond that, it would not be unreasonable to say you needed to
consult with your attorney. Most good cops will understand that.
+1
It implies premeditation. If, heaven forbid, you are in a self-sefense situation, the DA would jump on this, saying that you had given this thought beforehand. I would not do it.
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch; Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote."
-- Benjamin Franklin
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