Falsely Accused

This is a discussion on Falsely Accused within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Blackeagle And the fact that he wasn't fired illustrates the problem with false positives. If you get positives all the time, and ...

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  1. #46
    Restricted Member Array SelfDefense's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackeagle View Post
    And the fact that he wasn't fired illustrates the problem with false positives. If you get positives all the time, and everyone knows most of them are false, people start ignoring positive results. Then when a real positive comes along, nobody pays it any attention. It's like the boy who cried wolf.

    Useless.
    I will try one last time. False positives, as you correctly write, occur with a frequency of about 10-15%. That means that 85% of the time a positive examination will correctly detect someone lying.

    However, the point is that if you pass the polygraph the negative examination wil correctly detect some not lying at around 95%.

    This is important information and follow up tests will reduce that uncertainty significantly. Hardly useless and an important tool.

    The article quoted even addresses the comparison with medical conditions that you challenged.

    By definition, single-issue testing uses relevant questions that cover only one event. Because most polygraph techniques use between two and four relevant questions, each of the relevant questions would be a rewording of one central question. For example, for a single-issue technique with three relevant questions used to solve a bank robbery, they might be worded like this: Did you rob the ABC Bank last Thursday; Last Thursday did you rob the ABC bank on Main Street, and; Are you the one who robbed the ABC Bank last week?

    Laboratory research investigating the accuracy of single-issue polygraph examinations has found a median accuracy of 86%. Field research suggests a slightly higher at 89%. Higher accuracy is associated with valid testing and scoring protocols, whereas lower accuracy tends to reflect departures from standard field practices.

    Even with advancements in sensors and computers, there is little optimism of large increases in polygraph decision accuracy. However, as a diagnostic tool, the single-issue polygraph test fairs well against diagnostic methods in other fields. By way of comparison, single-issue polygraph decision accuracy is lower than decision accuracy when diagnosing appendicitis with ultrasound, but equivalent to the accuracy of diagnoses made for breast cancer using either ultrasound or MRI. Polygraph decisions are higher than the standard tools used by psychologists to diagnose personality disorders or depression.

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  3. #47
    VIP Member Array Patti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TN_Mike View Post
    Without a corroborating witness and if the police did not actually see it, you will not be arrested.

    Plus, one would hope at least, that once the background of both you and the accuser are looked at, you being a law abiding citizen who has taken the time and expense to obtain a carry permit and do not have a criminal record, they should see you as a good guy at least partly.
    But as I said and as has been said before on this thread, with no witness to back the accuser up, no prosecutor worth a darn would touch the case.

    I OC and this is something I simply do not worry about. And I won't start worrying about it either.
    Excellent post.

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  4. #48
    Member Array chains1240's Avatar
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    I would have to rely on on the fact that if I tell the truth my story stays the same no matter how many times you ask me the details of the event. People who lie inadvertently change the details of their story when they tell the authorities, except maybe the most highly intelligent of criminal minds. With an absolutely squeaky clean background I think the authorities would be hard pressed to believe I I would suddenly threaten someone with my firearm. The person who did accuse me would then be arrested for filing a false police report and abuse.

  5. #49
    RAS
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    Hijacked

    Great post and something to think about....

    Too bad it has to be interrupted (Hijacked) by a couple of seniors on the merits of a lie detector test.

  6. #50
    VIP Member Array Blackeagle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAS View Post
    Great post and something to think about....

    Too bad it has to be interrupted (Hijacked) by a couple of seniors on the merits of a lie detector test.
    Sorry. Pseudoscience makes me cranky.

  7. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by SelfDefense View Post
    Even if you could do thatm which is highly unlikely, you fail.

    Actually, that is consistent with the point I am trying to make. You 'flunked' but there are also examiner comments... I think a better way of looking at is is that you didn't pass. The distinction is all important.
    Problem is I was telling the truth........
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  8. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAS View Post
    Great post and something to think about....

    Too bad it has to be interrupted (Hijacked) by a couple of seniors on the merits of a lie detector test.
    Very good point, lets keep it on topic.

    I think this scenario is a bit out there in most people are not going to notice your gun even if it is printing anyway. However , as said most LEO's will be able to figure out who is/isn't spewing the B.S. through interviewing em.
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  9. #53
    Senior Member Array youngda9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rocky View Post
    I think this scenario is a bit out there in most people are not going to notice your gun even if it is printing anyway.
    The question was posed as OC or CC, doesn't matter...under the premise that someone DID notice your gun.

    False police complaints happen all the time, just for revenge or other reasons. I don't think this scenario is "a bit out there" at all. I think it's a valid thing that could happen, and something to think about. Not to worry about, I never said I worried about it, just thought of it and wondered how it would all go down.

    Thanks for all the comments and inputs everyone !
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  10. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAS View Post
    Great post and something to think about....

    Too bad it has to be interrupted (Hijacked) by a couple of seniors on the merits of a lie detector test.
    Agreed! Excellent observation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackeagle View Post
    Sorry. Pseudoscience makes me cranky.
    And thread hijacking makes the moderators cranky.


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  11. #55
    New Member Array CurtMill's Avatar
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    Don't worry about printing1

    Quote Originally Posted by youngda9 View Post
    I got to thinking about something as I was mowing the lawn in the windy conditions today carrying IWB...thinking the wind would make the handle of my gun print a bit.

    Suppose someone knew you carried(OC or CC, doesn't matter) and accused you of pointing your gun at them in a threatening mannor, which you didn't. The reason they accused you doesn't matter(jerk, enemy, mentally unstable, for the heck of it). The person called the police and accused you of this. Its their word against yours, no witnesses. For the sake of argument you carry a standard black glock, and this is what the guy guesses(if you CC) when he tells the cops you pointed it at him and threatened him.

    How does such a situation get resolved?

    I carry a 9mm in the front pocket of dress slacks. It prints all the time. I have walked up to a police officer to ask directions with no questions. I know it is a gun. To me it clearly looks like a pistol in my pocket. To everyone else, it looks like I have a cell phone and/or other junk in my poocket. Don't worry - be happy.

  12. #56
    VIP Member Array Blackeagle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Crunch View Post
    And thread hijacking makes the moderators cranky.
    Well we can be cranky together then.

  13. #57
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    Very few people see the business end of my weapon. It has scotchlite strips glued to it. Good luck accusing me of brandishing if you miss those.

    I put them on a long time ago after I dropped a weapon in tall grass, at night, while answering an audible alarm when I was doing private security. I tripped in a hole, I went one way and the gun another. Better than an ND trying to hold on to it (or would that be a rare AD?). What a mad scramble to find that darned gun.
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  14. #58
    Senior Member Array youngda9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paramedic70002 View Post
    Very few people see the business end of my weapon. It has scotchlite strips glued to it. Good luck accusing me of brandishing if you miss those.
    Can you post a picture? Interesting idea.
    Speak softly, and carry a big stick.

  15. #59
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    I think the LEOs will be able to sort out the difference between the sane permit holder and the looney next door. Especially with the gun description piece that many folks have mentioned.

  16. #60
    VIP Member Array paramedic70002's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by youngda9 View Post
    Can you post a picture? Interesting idea.
    Pic kinda sucks...
    Attached Images
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!

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