Notify a probation officer?

This is a discussion on Notify a probation officer? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I live on a corner, the PO was looking for 78 Cherry, I live on the cross street 78 Maple. (not the real street names, ...

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Thread: Notify a probation officer?

  1. #16
    Member Array NCTom's Avatar
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    I live on a corner, the PO was looking for 78 Cherry, I live on the cross street 78 Maple. (not the real street names, of course). I directed him around the corner and all was good, for me at least.

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  3. #17
    Senior Member Array Landric's Avatar
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    I'll give you my take on this, given that I was for a time a probation and parole officer in North Carolina and I am now a police officer in NC.

    Probation and Parole officers in NC are quasi-law enforcement. They have the power of arrest and are authorized to serve criminal process. They are armed and can carry concealed weapons while on duty the same as sworn LEOs (that is, pretty much anywhere, educational property, places that serve alcohol, etc.). They are sworn and have statewide jurisdiction.

    However, while state statute gives them the same powers of arrest as a sheriff or his deputies (that is, full subject matter jurisdiction statewide rather than countywide), department policy limits that authority. P&P officers are limited to only arresting those on probation or parole for violations of probation or parole, or serving process related to violations of probation or parole. That is, however, policy not law. A P&P officer could legally arrest someone for say possession of cocaine, but it would be in violation of policy and the officer would likely get into some trouble. Department policy also prohibits officers from carrying their issued weapon (a S&W M&P40) off-duty, and there is no procedure in place for officers to qualify with personally owned off-duty weapons. In addition to all that, P&P officers attend separate training to certify them as P&P officers. Its different from BLET (state mandated entry level LEO training), so the state does not consider P&P officers LEOs, but rather "Justice Officers". Of course the state-issued P&P officer ID says that the officer is sworn and authorized to make arrests (and doesn't mention any limitations since by statute there are not any).

    To muddy the waters further, P&P officers qualify to carry concealed handguns nationwide under LEOSA, but doing so would violate department policy.

    My feeling is this: In the event that you contact a P&P officer who is acting in their official capacity, then you would be required to notify. However, the chances of this actually happening (unless you are on probation or parole and therefore prohibited from having a NC CHP anyway) are pretty slim. In the event it does happen for some reason, the safe thing to do is notify.

    However, NC law doesn't require any sort of permit to carry any weapon concealed on one's own premises. Whether or not one has a permit, on one's own property no permit is required. Therefore, notification wouldn't be required in any case. It might be a good idea, depending on the circumstances, or it might not.
    -Landric

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  4. #18
    Member Array tflhndn's Avatar
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    Doubling up on what Landric said: The requirement to notify LE that you are carrying concealed only stems from carrying on a permit.

    If you are on your own property, you are not carrying under the auspices of the permit, but under your rights as a property owner, not a permit holder - therefore the notice requirements do not apply.

    Having said that, under most circumstances, I believe it is better to notify than not, but I doubt I would have in your circumstance (LE/Parole officer asking about someone else).

    Had they been looking to talk to me, I likely would have notified as a courtesy if nothing else.

  5. #19
    Distinguished Member Array Squawker's Avatar
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    I agree that you don't need to inform him. Not only are you on your own property, you only had incidental contact with him. If he was coming to see you, or someone in your residence, then it would be a different story. But just a P&P officer asking for directions, in my opinion, would not cause you to have to inform him. Now, here in Nevada, we aren't required to notify officers. If I am stopped, or have official contact, I always do. However, I would not have informed the P&P officer in this case.

  6. #20
    Ex Member Array MadMac's Avatar
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    I am a NC resident, and personally, I wouldn't have opened the door.

    I'd tell him to look down at his feet.

    My doormat:


  7. #21
    Senior Member Array wjh2657's Avatar
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    I don't know about homeowner status in NC. Here in Tennessee, at home I am not on HCP status, but homeowner on my own property. With a Castle Doctrine law in effect in TN, I don't have to voluntarily inform anybody that I am armed in my own home unless they are there to question or arrest me. If they are flashing a warrant for me or to search house, I of course would assume the position and inform them I am legally armed.
    Retired Marine, Retired School Teacher, Independent voter, Goldwater Conservative.

  8. #22
    Distinguished Member Array fotomaker57's Avatar
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    This is a good question. I am going to have to do a little research and see how Missouri views it's probation officers. Something I have not given any thought to.
    Mike
    The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
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  9. #23
    Distinguished Member Array Bunny's Avatar
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    NCTom, I asked my instructors last night about this. There are 4 of them, all certified NRA, 2 LEO and one of those is SWAT, so I figured if they didn't know, they could get the answer pretty easily. Plus like you, we are in NC and bound to the same state laws. Here's the email I got from them this morning:

    Bunny,
    It will be easier if I break this up into a couple of answers.

    1. If you are in your own home you do not have to disclose to any Law Enforcement Officer (LEO) that you have or own any guns.This is because you do not have to have a conceal carry permit on your own property by NC law.

    2. Is a probation officer a state LEO? Yes and no. Most probation officers are a "certified LEO" which would require you to disclose to them if you are carrying a handgun and addressed by them in a public place. Probation officer usually work under the Dept. of Justice or the Sheriffs office. There are some probation officers that are "Administrative only", but the chances of in countering one of them are slim.

    If you can't tell a person is a LEO; ask them directly if they are an officer and if you can see their credentials.
    Don't frisk me, I am the weapon.


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  10. #24
    Member Array grandma4's Avatar
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    Any individual who has applied for and has been issued a concealed handgun permit
    must follow certain regulations concerning its use. [B]Not only must the individual carry the
    permit along with proper identification whenever the handgun is being carried concealed,
    but he/she must also inform any law enforcement officer who approaches him/her that
    he/she is in possession of a permit and a concealed h[/B]

    sounds to me that you would not have to report if they are at your house on your property. It says when you are carrying a concealed weapon. I guess if you at your home you are not under the concealment law

  11. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by chains1240 View Post
    Just my opinion as well but I would have to say no. Private property, not an official interaction regarding you, and is he technically a law enforcement officer? May depend on state also?
    I agree, private property shouldn't have to inform him.

  12. #26
    Member Array Zach and Holly's Avatar
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    Yeah, who knows who he actually might be. I'm dressed nice and have a badge and ID. I wouldn't tell him anything about a firearm.
    It is utterly illogical to believe that passing laws to reduce gun violence will be successful when those who are commiting the gun violence do not obey the law.

  13. #27
    VIP Member Array AZ Husker's Avatar
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    Thank God it wasn't the SWAT team looking for your neighbor at your address! I'd be contacting the court and make sure the confusion is straightened out.
    Treat me good, I'll treat you better. Treat me bad, I'll treat you worse.

  14. #28
    Senior Member Array dripster's Avatar
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    Again I will repeat myself as someone felt the need to delete my post. There should be no need for you to tell a PO at your door looking for someone else that you are a cwp holder. It makes you look like a BUFF and will only lead to more problems.
    One more step and it's on!

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