Situation in a sports center parking lot

This is a discussion on Situation in a sports center parking lot within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; My basic question is, would you get in a public fist fight before drawing your gun? The other day at our local regional sports center, ...

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Thread: Situation in a sports center parking lot

  1. #1
    Member Array Zach and Holly's Avatar
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    Situation in a sports center parking lot

    My basic question is, would you get in a public fist fight before drawing your gun?

    The other day at our local regional sports center, a fight broke out on the sidelines of the basketball court and escalated out into the parking lot. During the game, parents were yelling for their kids, and one parent (an obnoxious rowdy type man) didn't like what this other guy had to say about his kid's defense. Needless to say, he attacked him. The fight was quickly split up.

    I imagined myself in the victim's shoes in the parking lot walking back to the car with my family and this guy running up to me swinging punches. There are people all over the parking lot after the game, and of course, all attention is drawn directly to you. I always carry, but I cannot fathom drawing my firearm on this guy with all the people around in broad daylight when I already know exactly what his problem is. This isn't like walking back to your car with your wife at night and some freaky looking individuals approach you; I'd already have my hand on my gun ready for the worst. But here, it just seems like a good old fashioned fist fight. We don't want to kill anyone here...this guy has a kid he loves obviously, is offended you insulted his defense, and wants to duke it with you. Yet, he's still trying to clock you in the face which is absolutely an immediate threat to you, and your family standing right next to you. And who knows if he's got a knife?

    Immediate concerns:

    -People everywhere
    -All eyes on you (even any type of brandish could send people screaming)
    -Man has his own wife and child present

    Risks:

    -Man is out of control, large, and landing punches and kicks on you, nobody is coming to assist
    -He's trying to take you down with small children and wife at your side, is still irate, and not backing down or showing signs of leaving
    -If you run, your family is unattended
    -Could have weapon of any kind

    Thoughts please? My wife and I discussed this the whole way home.
    It is utterly illogical to believe that passing laws to reduce gun violence will be successful when those who are commiting the gun violence do not obey the law.

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  3. #2
    Member Array NC Buckeye's Avatar
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    You have to just put up your dukes. Although would be likely to let him just have his punch, walk away, and then have him arrested.

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    VIP Member Array ExactlyMyPoint's Avatar
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    What about OC spray? Or other less lethal methods?
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    Member Array NC Buckeye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NC Buckeye View Post
    You have to just put up your dukes. Although would be likely to let him just have his punch, walk away, and then have him arrested.
    That potential conversation made me laugh...

    Me: Officer thanks for coming. I am obligated to tell you that I have my NC CCH Permit and I am currently carrying on my right hip.

    Officer: WHAT?

    Me: Yes, sir. Mr. XXX, the guy in the blue shirt, didn't like my critique of son's defense, and we got into an argument.

    Officer: You have gun?

    Me: Yes, sir. He decided to follow me as I walked to my car and proceeded to hit me in the mouth... causing my fat lip.

    Officer: You better give it to me.

    Me: Yes, sir, but I would prefer it stay holstered... here it is.

    Officer: Now what happened?

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    Senior Member Array InspectorGadget's Avatar
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    Verbally warn him back, if he continues swinging without a weapon then Pepper, and have wife call 911, keep hand near Sidearm incase it escalates. Have Wife get cell phone video in case he says you attacked him for no reason. Since none of this is cut and dry, you start with minimum force (warning) and then step up. His right to free speech does not include physical assault.
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    Distinguished Member Array Anubis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zach and Holly View Post
    would you get in a public fist fight before drawing your gun?
    No.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ExactlyMyPoint View Post
    What about OC spray? Or other less lethal methods?
    +1. Pepper spray will normally take the fight out of someone, and it is a less than lethal alternative. Once the aggressor has been stopped call the police and let them handle it from there. As it has been said here many times, your weapon is going to be your last resort, to avoid death or serious bodily harm.

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    VIP Member Array goldshellback's Avatar
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    What happens if, while engaging this "family sports fan"(akaFSF), your EDC falls out?

    Lets say our FSF is a HUGE, angry individual? Disparity of force.......scared for your (or your family's) life? Not to mention LOTS of kids and parents in the parking lot.

    This loser starting fights in the parking lot is BAD news! When I say my sidearm is my last resort.........I'd might have to take a butt whooping if I couldn't run/get away from him. Unleashing a bullet in that enviroment could very well have grave consequences.....way too many kids/families.

    VERY tough situation! I would NOT draw if I could ABSOLUTLY avoid it.
    "Just getting a concealed carry permit means you haven't commited a crime yet. CCP holders commit crimes." Daniel Vice, senior attorney for the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, quoted on Fox & Friends, 8 Jul, 2008

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    Senior Member Array Rotorblade's Avatar
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    This scenario is probably one of the hardest to resolve. You don't want to fight that guy but you really don't want to pull a handgun on him either as he may or may not back-off. If he doesn't, do you pull the trigger or risk going hands on with the guy and having him end up with your weapon.............
    The safest approach is to not get yourself in that predicament to begin with. I'm 53 and haven't been in a physical altercation since I was 17. You keep your mouth shut, stay out of other people's business, don't verbally engage someone who is obviously upset and apologize to everyone who bumps into you.
    I don't have anything to prove to anyone and will gladly be the wimp that walks away.

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    Ex Member Array LaCCW's Avatar
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    I will say this, i'm 51 years old and subscribe to the adage of: a young man will fight you, an old man will kill you. I will let you push, push, push, when it's my turn to push back you may not like the method. 'Nuff said.

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    Member Array Zach and Holly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anubis View Post
    No.


    So, you would draw immediately and tell him to back off.

    Heh, my next thought is: "Aaaaand, cue the
    "HE'S GOT A GUN!!!!" people, and the cops arrive only knowing that someone has a gun.
    It is utterly illogical to believe that passing laws to reduce gun violence will be successful when those who are commiting the gun violence do not obey the law.

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    Member Array hardlivin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NC Buckeye View Post
    That potential conversation made me laugh...

    Me: Officer thanks for coming. I am obligated to tell you that I have my NC CCH Permit and I am currently carrying on my right hip.

    Officer: WHAT?

    Me: Yes, sir. Mr. XXX, the guy in the blue shirt, didn't like my critique of son's defense, and we got into an argument.

    Officer: You have gun?

    Me: Yes, sir. He decided to follow me as I walked to my car and proceeded to hit me in the mouth... causing my fat lip.

    Officer: You better give it to me.

    Me: Yes, sir, but I would prefer it stay holstered... here it is.

    Officer: Now what happened?

    I like your response. But.... there is no way I'm touching my weapon while in the presence of LEO. I'll make it as easy as possible for them to disarm me. I will inform of the presence of a weapon and comply with every reasonable request with the exception of actually putting my hand or impression of putting my hand on my weapon while in their presence.

    Any opinions?

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    Member Array Zach and Holly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hardlivin View Post
    I like your response. But.... there is no way I'm touching my weapon while in the presence of LEO. I'll make it as easy as possible for them to disarm me. I will inform of the presence of a weapon and comply with every reasonable request with the exception of actually putting my hand or impression of putting my hand on my weapon while in their presence.

    Any opinions?


    I'm honestly not convinced I would even bring it up in this situation. You explain the fight, then announce you had a gun the entire time? I doubt I'll get searched, but if I were about to, I think I would THEN reveal the location of my firearm and let them grab it themselves if they so wish. If they're just asking me questions about the incident, I think I'm just going to explain what happened, and go home...
    It is utterly illogical to believe that passing laws to reduce gun violence will be successful when those who are commiting the gun violence do not obey the law.

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    Member Array Delcorbett's Avatar
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    Since we as armed citizens are held to a higher standard, it is our obligation to stay out of those situations, but I would imagine with a parking lot full of people all looking at you, and he is charging and swinging, a bit of fox labs to his eyes would send him on his merry way. Might bring a tear to my eye as well, laughing about it later with my family.

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    HKR
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    If someone is crazed enough to come after you then there is no way to know that your family will not be his next target.
    Fist fights are for kids and for when you have no other option but to fight. Fist fights leave too much to chance. You may be the better fighter, but that doesn't mean you will win.

    I would have my wife call 911 as soon as the attacker turned his attention on us (or I would attempt the call depending on the situation) and I would give a loud warning if he continued our way. If I feel myself or my family is going to be attacked then the gun comes out. Period. To hell with what everyone watching thinks, my family is going home safe, end of discussion.

    My wife and I have had the same conversation and she knows what to do and what to say to the 911 operator..."A man is attacking my husband/family, my husband has warned him to stop and is armed. My husband is wearing______."

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