I try not to argue, but it's so hard to hold back!!!

This is a discussion on I try not to argue, but it's so hard to hold back!!! within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by ritepath I consider my sidearm a life saving device, not that much different than a defib imho. Do you also carry a ...

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Thread: I try not to argue, but it's so hard to hold back!!!

  1. #46
    Ex Member Array Oldskoolfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ritepath View Post
    I consider my sidearm a life saving device, not that much different than a defib imho.
    Do you also carry a portable defibrillator around? What about a fire extinguisher?

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  3. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by PNUT View Post
    I couldn't agree more.

    I've intervened in a few instances of crime but IMO it has nothing to do with any Sheepdog nonsense or carrying. Just being a decent human being.
    Which is exactly the argument those who talk about sheepdogs use in my experience. ;)

  4. #48
    Member Array Stealie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zacii View Post
    Ok, let the professionals handle law enforcement. But we'll handle self-defense.

    Should put this on a t-shirt.
    We can't stop here...this is bat country.
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  5. #49
    Member Array seawolf1956's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zacii View Post
    Ok, let the professionals handle law enforcement. But we'll handle self-defense.

    They're called "law enforcement" officers for a reason ... their primary job is to enforce the law. If they actually defended citizens, they would be called "self defense" officers.

    -Seawolf
    "Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid." - John Wayne
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  6. #50
    Member Array Holger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eagleks View Post
    Most WARS, are not fought by "professionals".
    Huh?

  7. #51
    Senior Member Array PointnClick's Avatar
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    MadMac sez...

    Additionally, I didn't accept the responsibility of being armed to be a self-appointed guardian of my fellow citizens. That's the job of law enforcement. I simply take an additional precaution to arm myself for the protection of my person and those under my roof. The sheepdog mindset sounds like a LEO wanna-be to me.
    I agree, to some degree, but part of that "sheepdog" metaphor is the idea that the armed, law-abiding citizen can prevent the tragedies the anti-2A types love to point to when calling for gun control. Don't we always say, "an armed teacher coulda stopped Columbine..." Or, "an armed student legally carrying concealed coulda stopped VA Tech..."

    I posted this a few months back...




    There was a post I read here a while back where people were saying that they would not draw to protect a stranger. I am not that guy. I am the biggest mark for strays, runaways, and damsels in distress, and it may well be my undoing someday. I WILL draw to protect your wife or your mother or your daughter from a rape or a beating... it doesn't matter that they are a stranger.

    Suppose your daughter or mother was being raped in an alley and I happened upon it, but did nothing to stop it, even though I had 17 rounds of .45 ACP on me... what would you think of me...? Is "none of my business" a valid excuse for you while your daughter is recovering from facial fractures and suckin' air through a respirator?

    I would like to think that you would do the same to protect my wife or my mother, but apparently, many people would not.

    I'm sure many people would say, "you don't know the whole story", and "it's none of your business" and "best to stay out of it..." That could be true... but I can't think of a single good reason for a 200 lb man to beat a 100 lb woman. I, for one, will not listen to your Mom say "help me" and just walk by. I WILL stop it. I couldn't live with myself if I did not.

    Part of the reason our society is what it has become is that we coddle criminals, and no one takes responsibility to be his brother's keeper... we've gone from "looking out for our neighbors" to "none of my business".
    "Who is to say that I am not an instrument of karma? Indeed, who is to say that I am not the very hand of God himself, dispatched by the Almighty to smite the Philistines and hypocrites, to lay low the dishonest and corrupt, and to bust the jawbone of some jackass that so desperately deserves it?"

  8. #52
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Leave your guns at home at let the professionals handle law enforcement
    They. Aren't. Here.

    On the instant of crime finding me, the simple fact is that well-intentioned Johnny LEO is 5mi and a phone call away. No matter how much I wish it were otherwise, those distant "professionals" aren't here ... and they almost certainly won't be until after the crime is complete. That's a fact.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
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  9. #53
    Ex Member Array Oldskoolfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PointnClick View Post
    MadMac sez...



    I agree, to some degree, but part of that "sheepdog" metaphor is the idea that the armed, law-abiding citizen can prevent the tragedies the anti-2A types love to point to when calling for gun control. Don't we always say, "an armed teacher coulda stopped Columbine..." Or, "an armed student legally carrying concealed coulda stopped VA Tech..."

    I posted this a few months back...




    There was a post I read here a while back where people were saying that they would not draw to protect a stranger. I am not that guy. I am the biggest mark for strays, runaways, and damsels in distress, and it may well be my undoing someday. I WILL draw to protect your wife or your mother or your daughter from a rape or a beating... it doesn't matter that they are a stranger.

    Suppose your daughter or mother was being raped in an alley and I happened upon it, but did nothing to stop it, even though I had 17 rounds of .45 ACP on me... what would you think of me...? Is "none of my business" a valid excuse for you while your daughter is recovering from facial fractures and suckin' air through a respirator?

    I would like to think that you would do the same to protect my wife or my mother, but apparently, many people would not.

    I'm sure many people would say, "you don't know the whole story", and "it's none of your business" and "best to stay out of it..." That could be true... but I can't think of a single good reason for a 200 lb man to beat a 100 lb woman. I, for one, will not listen to your Mom say "help me" and just walk by. I WILL stop it. I couldn't live with myself if I did not.

    Part of the reason our society is what it has become is that we coddle criminals, and no one takes responsibility to be his brother's keeper... we've gone from "looking out for our neighbors" to "none of my business".
    Well I have to ask since you have taken on the grave responsibility of protecting others are you insured in case you mess up? Are you also prepared to save lives using first aid, a defibrillator, or a fire extinguisher? And I have to ask since you are your brothers keeper, do you let homeless people into the home and help them get back onto their feet? Do you volunteer your time at the local church, children hospital, or other place so you can help teach kids to act right? I mean are you your brothers keeper all the time or only when it comes to you pulling a firearm out of a holster and in violent conflict?

  10. #54
    Member Array FHBrumb's Avatar
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    This thread officially sucks.

    I have nothing but respect for a person willing to step between my family and grave danger, in my absence. Heck, maybe step between me and grave danger, if I am unable...

    I'm out of here, you guys enjoy your conversation. I'm off to see how much a portable defibrulator and compact fire extinguisher costs.
    Washington Post 06/28/2010 re: Supreme Court Decision
    "The court's decision means that the enigmatically worded Second Amendment... identifies an individual right to gun ownership, like the freedom of speech, that cannot be unduly restricted by Congress, state laws or city ordinances. "

  11. #55
    Senior Member Array PointnClick's Avatar
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    Tecumseh sez...

    Well I have to ask since you have taken on the grave responsibility of protecting others are you insured in case you mess up? Are you also prepared to save lives using first aid, a defibrillator, or a fire extinguisher? And I have to ask since you are your brothers keeper, do you let homeless people into the home and help them get back onto their feet? Do you volunteer your time at the local church, children hospital, or other place so you can help teach kids to act right? I mean are you your brothers keeper all the time or only when it comes to you pulling a firearm out of a holster and in violent conflict?
    Well, as a matter of fact, there is a small fire extinguisher in my truck... and if your jalopy is burning on the side of the road, I would indeed put out your car... no need to thank me, that's what decent people do. I also know how to do CPR, and if you are dying on the sidewalk, I would do what I could to save your life...

    Two threads running just this week... one was a fist fight in traffic... am I gonna shoot those guys? No... but if one guy is unconscious and the other is beating him with a lead pipe, Florida law says I can draw and shoot to prevent bodily harm or death to another...

    Another post... fat security guards chasing a guy, maybe a shoplifter... I'm not gonna shoot that guy either...

    I have never drawn my weapon. But if your 14 year old daughter is the main course at a zombie biker gangrape, I WILL stop it, and take my chances in court. I couldn't live with myself if I did not.

    All I ask from my defense attorney are some 20x24 before-and-after pictures of your baby girl, and a graphic and grisly description of what happened.

    The defense rests...
    "Who is to say that I am not an instrument of karma? Indeed, who is to say that I am not the very hand of God himself, dispatched by the Almighty to smite the Philistines and hypocrites, to lay low the dishonest and corrupt, and to bust the jawbone of some jackass that so desperately deserves it?"

  12. #56
    Ex Member Array MadMac's Avatar
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    Lighten up, Frances...

    I think Tecumesh makes an interesting and thought-provoking point. Obviously, most of us are the Good Samaritan types who would gladly help out others - especially those in dire need.

    That being said, I feel the "sheep" and "sheepdog" euphemisms are over the top. As a CHP holder, I do not see myself as a community watchdog or a LEO-Lite. I think it can lead to brash or ill-considered acts on behalf of others when you may know nothing about the situation.

    Someone who chooses a different risk profile and prefers not to arm himself is hopefully making a conscious decision. The fact his decision is different than yours or mine doesn't make him a feckless dope - just someone with a different risk perspective. Referring to them in pejorative terms smacks of smug self-importance and is unbecoming.

    There's an interesting line between that creepy post of the guy who gets his CHP and now sees himself as the new undercover town vigilante and an armed citizen coming to the aid of someone in a life-threatening situation.

    This is a discussion board. I appreciate the differing points of view. It helps crystallize my thoughts on the matter.

  13. #57
    Member Array BigBear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zacii View Post
    Ok, let the professionals handle law enforcement. But we'll handle self-defense.

    This is the perfect answer! I'm not applying for my CCW permit because I want to enforce the law, I am applying because ultimately I am responsible for the immediate protection of myself and those I love. If being rained on could kill you, wouldn't you carry an umberella? Just in case?
    " In theory, reality and theory are the same. In reality, they are not."

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  14. #58
    Senior Member Array PointnClick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadMac View Post

    That being said, I feel the "sheep" and "sheepdog" euphemisms are over the top. As a CHP holder, I do not see myself as a community watchdog or a LEO-Lite. I think it can lead to brash or ill-considered acts on behalf of others when you may know nothing about the situation.
    I don't think of myself as "LEO-Lite" either... I'm not some vigilante dreaming of the day that I can light up some petty criminal sticking up a Piggly-Wiggly...

    But a teenage girl with torn clothing begging for help whilst surrounded by a gang of drug-addled degenerates...? I think I know everything about this situation that I really need to know... my Sig is comin' out.
    "Who is to say that I am not an instrument of karma? Indeed, who is to say that I am not the very hand of God himself, dispatched by the Almighty to smite the Philistines and hypocrites, to lay low the dishonest and corrupt, and to bust the jawbone of some jackass that so desperately deserves it?"

  15. #59
    Ex Member Array MadMac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PointnClick View Post
    But a teenage girl with torn clothing begging for help whilst surrounded by a gang of drug-addled degenerates...?
    You don't happen to make movies in your van parked down by the river, do you?

  16. #60
    Senior Member Array PointnClick's Avatar
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    I got no idea what that means...
    "Who is to say that I am not an instrument of karma? Indeed, who is to say that I am not the very hand of God himself, dispatched by the Almighty to smite the Philistines and hypocrites, to lay low the dishonest and corrupt, and to bust the jawbone of some jackass that so desperately deserves it?"

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