Something to think about.
This is a discussion on Something to think about. within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I pose this scenario based on posts regarding some shootings of questionable legality that have been discussed at length on this forum.
This is a ...
May 15th, 2009 09:23 PM
Something to think about.
I pose this scenario based on posts regarding some shootings of questionable legality that have been discussed at length on this forum.
This is a purely hypothetical scenario, but could in theory happen to any of us at any time.
You are in the parking lot of your local megamart after dark walking to your vehicle when a car slows near you and the driver points a weapon at your and demands your money. You make like you are reaching for your wallet and instead draw your weapon and fire. Before you can tell if your shots have taken effect the driver hits the gas and takes off. You call 9-1-1 to report it and wait for officers to respond. While you are on the phone the bad guy runs to the fire house to get medical treatment for his infant who was in the back seat and struck by one of your bullets.
Of course, being an avid reader of this forum you have seen the "Never talk to the police" threads and watched the linked video several times. You get hold of your lawyer and he/she says not to make any statements. Your local Sheriff is a poster child for the Brady bunch. Their policy is any shooting unless it is of an armed intruder in the shooters home, the shooter gets arrested and charged. He likes to let juries figure these things out.
With you following your lawyers instructions not to make any kind of statement, the only people talking to the media are the Sheriff's media office and the guy in the car.
What do you think your headlines will be?
Infowars- Proving David Hannum right on a daily basis
May 15th, 2009 09:23 PM
May 15th, 2009 09:28 PM
They will read, "infant shot at the hands of a concealed handgun owner"
Originally Posted by mcp1810
That is all it will say, nothing about that person defending themselves from the stupid Father robbing while transporting a child.
"Don't hit a man if you can possibly avoid it; but if you do hit him, put him to sleep." - Theodore Roosevelt
If you are not willing to stand behind our Troops, feel free to stand in front of them!
May 15th, 2009 09:50 PM
You would be made out to be a baby killer as paco said. That situation could push a man to his breaking point.
"Anyone worth shooting, is probably worth shooting several times."
May 15th, 2009 09:51 PM
We can all make scenarios with all kinds of possible 'add-ons'...I'd have to be there.
First of all you should be looking at moving cars coming towards you in a parking lot...it's your scenario, I'm just sayin'...
I would be moving back at an angle away from the window. An approaching car would have me looking for something to put between me and the dirtbag.
I'm not going to be shooting a car speeding away...no reason to do that.
Much of what you talk about could be avoided by being alert to suspicious vehicles moving around.
I look for this kind of movement.
I don't even park without circling around the isles prior to finding a spot...call me very cautious.
I may have lots of faults, but trusting strangers is not one of them...always have a 'PLAN'...
"That I cannot do."
"Give this to, uh, Clemenza. I want reliable people, people who aren't going to be carried away. After all we're not murderers in spite of what this undertaker thinks."
Certified Glock Armorer
NRA Life Member
May 16th, 2009 01:51 AM
Understandable scenario but I fail to see the point in this exersize...what about this...
You are at the icecream store and BG threatens you and you shoot him but not dead...innocent gets hit in the process...
Where do we end the possible scenarios and start doing what we can to be proactive in making them less likely.
Pray for our nations leaders!
May 16th, 2009 02:00 AM
You are going to villified in the press no matter who gets shot.
At least that has been my expirience. It doesn't so much matter what the local Sheriff wants, it's the local procecutor who decides what the law is. Good luck trying to prove the Father, who's actions started this whole mess, was trying to rob you at gunpoint.
By the time he gets to the Fire Station he will have ditched the gun, and any other incriminating evidence. His previous record may or may not be admissable, as that's up to the Judge, and the arguement your lawyer uses to get it introduced.
Just being in a clear cut case of self defense is bad enough. That is a nightmare. Your scenario is even worse than the nightmare. IMHO you are going to have an uphill battle, as most court cases are.
I think Clint Smith said it best; "Every bullet has a lawyer attatched to it."
May 16th, 2009 02:34 AM
May 16th, 2009 03:02 AM
One detail of this hypothetical situation that I found should have been mentioned was what time of day this was occurring? This changes the situation based upon if it was daylight, evening, etc. This would make me react differently in each case.
If it were daytime hours I would not be too concerned about a car approaching me as I walked towards my car. If it were during the evening hours of darkness I would be considerably more careful of slowly approaching vehicles. "retsupt99" does raise a valid point that we should be somewhat suspicious of slowly approaching vehicles. Moreso during the hours of darkness.
That is why since I have acquired my CCW permit. I now tend to park my truck at least 10 spaces away from other vehicles. I'm just too suspicious of vehicles that surrounding my truck. If the parking lot is full, I don't have a lot of choice. In this case I just am that more careful when approaching my truck.
If in this scenario I unholster my G26 & bring it to bear on the BG I would hope he would drive off. At this point the threat is over and I would look towards the vehicle speeding away and try to recall as much detail about this vehicle as possible. I would then reholster my handgun and call 911.
Years ago I recall the class to get certified as an armed security officer. One of the subjects that was covered was that we should never be shooting at fleeing vehicles. At this point the danger no longer exists. The possibility of a ricochet of a bullet into an unintended target was too great.
I know that this one outcome to this hypothetical scenario. But if had been occurring during the hours of darkness I can see an entirely different outcome.
Well, that's my $.02 for what it's worth.
"Gun control is being able to hit your target."
May 16th, 2009 08:00 AM
If it were me, the headlines would read:
"Local Fire Fighter shoots baby"
Now thats a money making headline....
May 16th, 2009 08:51 AM
Actually, for me the breaking point would come while sitting in prison...because that's exactly the outcome in this scenario. Press or no press, you killed the baby - your bullet, your responsibility...pretty clear cut in my opinion, regardless of the circumstance leading to the decision to draw and fire.
Originally Posted by thebigdl86
May 16th, 2009 09:25 AM
Interesting scenario. No good outcome from this one! Only one chance to shoot and you have to kill the BG. Sounds terrible but, that poor baby was doomed from the moment it was born in to that family!
May 16th, 2009 09:50 AM
It really doesn't matter in AZ. Here if an innocent gets hurt you get jail time for attempted murder. So the papers can say whatever...
May 16th, 2009 10:02 AM
There are so many options you can use to keep this from happening. (1) Rather than reaching for your weapon how about falling to the ground? You are now out of the BG firing range. Either roll and run or draw and prepare to fire if he should open the car door. (2) If his field of fire is out the window...take a step toward the rear of the car...again, remove yourself from his very limited field of fire and either flee the area or prepare to fire (or return fire) from a field of fire that you choose.
Protecting yourself is not just about blazing away...but using your training and common sense to protect yourself without endangering others.
To answer the question...there need be no headline.
May 16th, 2009 10:37 AM
Not always, in some cases and states the laws will allow for the bad guy to be charged with the murder of the innocent because his actions were what caused the incident to turn deadly.
Originally Posted by hidden
As far as your scenerio, I am not going to change it. Lets face it, some situations in life are just plain not fair, and you just laid one out that isn't fair.
The media headlines will be awful. Righteous shooting or not, you will be made into an awful villain. However, the media does not dictate the law, the investigation, your charges, or the verdict. The media may, however, make your lawyer bills even more expensive than they would be simply because the media's sensationalization of everything will probably taint your jury pool.
I have been involved on the wrong end of the media machine before, and the headlines about yourself or your loved ones can be absolutely gut wrenching. Here is what I have learned about how to deal with it:
1. Cancel your newspaper subscription
2. Don't watch local tv
3. Don't log in on any of the local newspaper websites.
Basically, just shut yourself off from reading or watching any media that will cover your story. It really is the best way. Reading or watching it and then trying to analyze it will just eat you up on the inside.
I will support gun control when you can guarantee all guns are removed from this planet. That includes military and law enforcement. When you can accomplish that, then I will be the last person to lay down my gun. Then I will carry the weapon that replaces the gun.
May 16th, 2009 12:05 PM
That is a Kobayashi Maru!
Originally Posted by mcp1810
Kimber Ultra Carry II, Glock G23 & G36, Kahr PM9, Winchester 1300 Defender 12gauge pump
(my favorite but hard to hide)
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