Something to think about.

This is a discussion on Something to think about. within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I pose this scenario based on posts regarding some shootings of questionable legality that have been discussed at length on this forum. This is a ...

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Thread: Something to think about.

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    Something to think about.

    I pose this scenario based on posts regarding some shootings of questionable legality that have been discussed at length on this forum.
    This is a purely hypothetical scenario, but could in theory happen to any of us at any time.

    You are in the parking lot of your local megamart after dark walking to your vehicle when a car slows near you and the driver points a weapon at your and demands your money. You make like you are reaching for your wallet and instead draw your weapon and fire. Before you can tell if your shots have taken effect the driver hits the gas and takes off. You call 9-1-1 to report it and wait for officers to respond. While you are on the phone the bad guy runs to the fire house to get medical treatment for his infant who was in the back seat and struck by one of your bullets.

    Of course, being an avid reader of this forum you have seen the "Never talk to the police" threads and watched the linked video several times. You get hold of your lawyer and he/she says not to make any statements. Your local Sheriff is a poster child for the Brady bunch. Their policy is any shooting unless it is of an armed intruder in the shooters home, the shooter gets arrested and charged. He likes to let juries figure these things out.

    With you following your lawyers instructions not to make any kind of statement, the only people talking to the media are the Sheriff's media office and the guy in the car.

    What do you think your headlines will be?
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  3. #2
    VIP Member Array Paco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcp1810 View Post
    What do you think your headlines will be?
    They will read, "infant shot at the hands of a concealed handgun owner"

    That is all it will say, nothing about that person defending themselves from the stupid Father robbing while transporting a child.
    "Don't hit a man if you can possibly avoid it; but if you do hit him, put him to sleep." - Theodore Roosevelt

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    Senior Member Array thebigdl86's Avatar
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    You would be made out to be a baby killer as paco said. That situation could push a man to his breaking point.
    "Anyone worth shooting, is probably worth shooting several times."

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    We can all make scenarios with all kinds of possible 'add-ons'...I'd have to be there.
    First of all you should be looking at moving cars coming towards you in a parking lot...it's your scenario, I'm just sayin'...

    I would be moving back at an angle away from the window. An approaching car would have me looking for something to put between me and the dirtbag.

    I'm not going to be shooting a car speeding away...no reason to do that.

    Much of what you talk about could be avoided by being alert to suspicious vehicles moving around.
    I look for this kind of movement.
    I don't even park without circling around the isles prior to finding a spot...call me very cautious.
    I may have lots of faults, but trusting strangers is not one of them...always have a 'PLAN'...
    The last Blood Moon Tetrad for this millennium starts in April 2014 and ends in September 2015...according to NASA.

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    Senior Member Array nosights's Avatar
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    Understandable scenario but I fail to see the point in this exersize...what about this...

    You are at the icecream store and BG threatens you and you shoot him but not dead...innocent gets hit in the process...

    Where do we end the possible scenarios and start doing what we can to be proactive in making them less likely.
    Pray for our nations leaders!

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    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    You are going to villified in the press no matter who gets shot.

    At least that has been my expirience. It doesn't so much matter what the local Sheriff wants, it's the local procecutor who decides what the law is. Good luck trying to prove the Father, who's actions started this whole mess, was trying to rob you at gunpoint.

    By the time he gets to the Fire Station he will have ditched the gun, and any other incriminating evidence. His previous record may or may not be admissable, as that's up to the Judge, and the arguement your lawyer uses to get it introduced.

    Just being in a clear cut case of self defense is bad enough. That is a nightmare. Your scenario is even worse than the nightmare. IMHO you are going to have an uphill battle, as most court cases are.

    I think Clint Smith said it best; "Every bullet has a lawyer attatched to it."

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    Member Array Vipertwo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcp1810 View Post
    What do you think your headlines will be?
    In mainstream media, you know it'd make the shooter look like a baby killer. Gotta get ratings ya know...

    I'd hope/guess that in the gun related media the headlines would be more accurate.

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    VIP Member Array Pikachu711's Avatar
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    One detail of this hypothetical situation that I found should have been mentioned was what time of day this was occurring? This changes the situation based upon if it was daylight, evening, etc. This would make me react differently in each case.

    If it were daytime hours I would not be too concerned about a car approaching me as I walked towards my car. If it were during the evening hours of darkness I would be considerably more careful of slowly approaching vehicles. "retsupt99" does raise a valid point that we should be somewhat suspicious of slowly approaching vehicles. Moreso during the hours of darkness.

    That is why since I have acquired my CCW permit. I now tend to park my truck at least 10 spaces away from other vehicles. I'm just too suspicious of vehicles that surrounding my truck. If the parking lot is full, I don't have a lot of choice. In this case I just am that more careful when approaching my truck.

    If in this scenario I unholster my G26 & bring it to bear on the BG I would hope he would drive off. At this point the threat is over and I would look towards the vehicle speeding away and try to recall as much detail about this vehicle as possible. I would then reholster my handgun and call 911.

    Years ago I recall the class to get certified as an armed security officer. One of the subjects that was covered was that we should never be shooting at fleeing vehicles. At this point the danger no longer exists. The possibility of a ricochet of a bullet into an unintended target was too great.

    I know that this one outcome to this hypothetical scenario. But if had been occurring during the hours of darkness I can see an entirely different outcome.

    Well, that's my $.02 for what it's worth.
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  10. #9
    Member Array schwaa's Avatar
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    If it were me, the headlines would read:

    "Local Fire Fighter shoots baby"

    Now thats a money making headline....

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    Member Array hidden's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebigdl86 View Post
    You would be made out to be a baby killer as paco said. That situation could push a man to his breaking point.
    Actually, for me the breaking point would come while sitting in prison...because that's exactly the outcome in this scenario. Press or no press, you killed the baby - your bullet, your responsibility...pretty clear cut in my opinion, regardless of the circumstance leading to the decision to draw and fire.

  12. #11
    Member Array fcolins357's Avatar
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    Interesting scenario. No good outcome from this one! Only one chance to shoot and you have to kill the BG. Sounds terrible but, that poor baby was doomed from the moment it was born in to that family!

  13. #12
    Distinguished Member Array MinistrMalic's Avatar
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    It really doesn't matter in AZ. Here if an innocent gets hurt you get jail time for attempted murder. So the papers can say whatever...
    "...whoever has no sword is to sell his coat and buy one." (Luke 22:36)
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    Member Array mpitcock's Avatar
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    There are so many options you can use to keep this from happening. (1) Rather than reaching for your weapon how about falling to the ground? You are now out of the BG firing range. Either roll and run or draw and prepare to fire if he should open the car door. (2) If his field of fire is out the window...take a step toward the rear of the car...again, remove yourself from his very limited field of fire and either flee the area or prepare to fire (or return fire) from a field of fire that you choose.

    Protecting yourself is not just about blazing away...but using your training and common sense to protect yourself without endangering others.

    To answer the question...there need be no headline.

  15. #14
    Distinguished Member Array SonofASniper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hidden View Post
    Actually, for me the breaking point would come while sitting in prison...because that's exactly the outcome in this scenario. Press or no press, you killed the baby - your bullet, your responsibility...pretty clear cut in my opinion, regardless of the circumstance leading to the decision to draw and fire.
    Not always, in some cases and states the laws will allow for the bad guy to be charged with the murder of the innocent because his actions were what caused the incident to turn deadly.


    As far as your scenerio, I am not going to change it. Lets face it, some situations in life are just plain not fair, and you just laid one out that isn't fair.

    The media headlines will be awful. Righteous shooting or not, you will be made into an awful villain. However, the media does not dictate the law, the investigation, your charges, or the verdict. The media may, however, make your lawyer bills even more expensive than they would be simply because the media's sensationalization of everything will probably taint your jury pool.

    I have been involved on the wrong end of the media machine before, and the headlines about yourself or your loved ones can be absolutely gut wrenching. Here is what I have learned about how to deal with it:

    1. Cancel your newspaper subscription
    2. Don't watch local tv
    3. Don't log in on any of the local newspaper websites.

    Basically, just shut yourself off from reading or watching any media that will cover your story. It really is the best way. Reading or watching it and then trying to analyze it will just eat you up on the inside.
    I will support gun control when you can guarantee all guns are removed from this planet. That includes military and law enforcement. When you can accomplish that, then I will be the last person to lay down my gun. Then I will carry the weapon that replaces the gun.

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    Member Array johnsonabq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcp1810 View Post
    I pose this scenario based on posts regarding some shootings of questionable legality that have been discussed at length on this forum.
    This is a purely hypothetical scenario, but could in theory happen to any of us at any time.

    You are in the parking lot of your local megamart after dark walking to your vehicle when a car slows near you and the driver points a weapon at your and demands your money. You make like you are reaching for your wallet and instead draw your weapon and fire. Before you can tell if your shots have taken effect the driver hits the gas and takes off. You call 9-1-1 to report it and wait for officers to respond. While you are on the phone the bad guy runs to the fire house to get medical treatment for his infant who was in the back seat and struck by one of your bullets.

    Of course, being an avid reader of this forum you have seen the "Never talk to the police" threads and watched the linked video several times. You get hold of your lawyer and he/she says not to make any statements. Your local Sheriff is a poster child for the Brady bunch. Their policy is any shooting unless it is of an armed intruder in the shooters home, the shooter gets arrested and charged. He likes to let juries figure these things out.

    With you following your lawyers instructions not to make any kind of statement, the only people talking to the media are the Sheriff's media office and the guy in the car.

    What do you think your headlines will be?
    That is a Kobayashi Maru!
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