"No concealed weapons allowed!!!" - Page 5

"No concealed weapons allowed!!!"

This is a discussion on "No concealed weapons allowed!!!" within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Here's Missouri's Boycott List: MissouriCarry.com Concealed Carry News and Events...

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Thread: "No concealed weapons allowed!!!"

  1. #61
    VIP Member Array Patti's Avatar
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    Here's Missouri's Boycott List:

    MissouriCarry.com Concealed Carry News and Events
    Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the gospel of envy. Winston Churchill


  2. #62
    New Member Array SirPeasant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by patrol View Post
    YouTube - Gun Free Zones - 1/2 Hour News Hour
    Watch this youtube feed on "Gun Free Zones" its from late night "fox news" and it sums it up.
    Below is the last post listed below the video and the part I bolded shows that somehwere a village is missing an idiot!

    animatedream (1 year ago):
    If all concealable and assault weapons are banned and thus no longer available for purchase in the US, then there will soon be no concealable or assault weapons for criminals to possess.
    Gun free zones are just a way to authorize police to take measures to detect and prevent guns from entering particularly vulnerable areas like schools or airports. Obviously without metal detectors and proper surveilance the concept doesn't do anything, it doesn't take a satirical video to point this out.

  3. #63
    Member Array bigdogtx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tecumseh View Post
    I feel that the signs should have force of law in all states. Property rights should mean something, but I guess the rights of property owners are not as important as 2nd Amendment rights.
    I totally agree,,,,AND you as a store owner, disarming me, a lawfully legal to carry citizen, should have added responsibility to provide protection for me and my family, that should anything happen because of YOUR actions, your fiscal responsibility would be as large as your rights.

  4. #64
    Member Array bigdogtx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tecumseh View Post
    You do realize that the constitution trumps the government, not private property, right?

    Using your logic I could stand on a businesses place and shout obscenities as I am exercising my first amendment rights.

    You are given permission to park so long as you meet the criteria, no guns in the car being the criterion in question.

    You may want to check on that law. Oklahoma, for one, ruled that the business owner could not prohibit employees from having a firearm in their auto. Texas is also trying to address this issue as well.

  5. #65
    Ex Member Array Oldskoolfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigdogtx View Post
    I totally agree,,,,AND you as a store owner, disarming me, a lawfully legal to carry citizen, should have added responsibility to provide protection for me and my family, that should anything happen because of YOUR actions, your fiscal responsibility would be as large as your rights.
    I have to provide reasonable protection for my customers as a store owner. Things that are foreseeable. A robbery or shooting does not happen because of my actions as a store owner. However though you as a customer concede that my safety precautions are enough when you come into my store to do some shopping. If you don't feel safe in my store, then please feel free to shop at my competitor.

    I don't want anyone to think that I am anti-gun, I am just very pro-property rights as private property rights are teh heart of capitalism and Western Civilization.

  6. #66
    Ex Member Array Oldskoolfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigdogtx View Post
    You may want to check on that law. Oklahoma, for one, ruled that the business owner could not prohibit employees from having a firearm in their auto. Texas is also trying to address this issue as well.
    I know and I am of the feeling that these laws are wrong. I also believe that Florida tried to pass similar law but I don't believe it made it. I do remember it was heavily opposed by Disney.

  7. #67
    Member Array sspargo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tecumseh View Post
    I have to provide reasonable protection for my customers as a store owner. Things that are foreseeable. A robbery or shooting does not happen because of my actions as a store owner. However though you as a customer concede that my safety precautions are enough when you come into my store to do some shopping. If you don't feel safe in my store, then please feel free to shop at my competitor.

    I don't want anyone to think that I am anti-gun, I am just very pro-property rights as private property rights are teh heart of capitalism and Western Civilization.
    Although I do not know the validity of the following statement I was told in my CCW Class by the instructor that in the state of NC, it has been established by the courts that IF a property owner relieves you of your right to protect yourself by prohibiting you from carrying they are 100% liable for your protection while you are on their property. IF you are on their property and are the victim of an unprovoked attack, the property owner is responsible for all damages, medical, punitive and other; NOT the assailant (which I believe should carry some of the burden). Other than the assailant not being at all liable, I agree 100% with this situation. I believe the perpetrator should be as liable as the property owner.
    "We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately." - Benjamin Franklin
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

    DID YOU KNOW: 89.3% of all quoted statistics are fabricated

  8. #68
    Senior Member Array wjh2657's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sspargo View Post
    Although I do not know the validity of the following statement I was told in my CCW Class by the instructor that in the state of NC, it has been established by the courts that IF a property owner relieves you of your right to protect yourself by prohibiting you from carrying they are 100% liable for your protection while you are on their property. IF you are on their property and are the victim of an unprovoked attack, the property owner is responsible for all damages, medical, punitive and other; NOT the assailant (which I believe should carry some of the burden). Other than the assailant not being at all liable, I agree 100% with this situation. I believe the perpetrator should be as liable as the property owner.
    Ran this by my " Legal Beagles" (JAGs) at drill last month. Their belief is that nobody can be held liable to defend you as , per U.S.Supreme Court decisions, you are the only one responsible for the defense of your person against an aggressor. Their argument is that once made aware of restriction against carry, you can exercise the option of not dealing or working in that establishment. Therefore the decision to be armed or not armed is in your hands. If you elect to enter unarmed, then you lose and it is not the owners' liability. The only way you can sue is if the owner shoots you on the premisis.

    Think about it, you can't even hold the police liable to protect you.
    Retired Marine, Retired School Teacher, Independent voter, Goldwater Conservative.

  9. #69
    Member Array sspargo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wjh2657 View Post
    Think about it, you can't even hold the police liable to protect you.
    Of course, however the police are protected by the state as long as they are conducting "official business".

    The statement the instructor made supposedly came from an attorney and apparently a former judge here in NC that the NC Legislature consults with on all firearm legislation. He is also a security consultant for many businesses, malls, banks, etc. and his opinion was that they can and will be held liable. He is mostly responsible for convincing businesses to remove the "No Weapons" placards from their establishments; namely Walmart. According to the instructor (and others) when CCW first became legal in NC Walmart placed the stickers on all their doors. They later consulted with this guy and promptly removed them.

    Again, I don't know as I am not an attorney BUT if I were a business owner I don't think I'd want to find out. I've heard of crazier, yet successful, lawsuits.
    "We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately." - Benjamin Franklin
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

    DID YOU KNOW: 89.3% of all quoted statistics are fabricated

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by sspargo View Post
    Of course, however the police are protected by the state as long as they are conducting "official business".

    The statement the instructor made supposedly came from an attorney and apparently a former judge here in NC that the NC Legislature consults with on all firearm legislation. He is also a security consultant for many businesses, malls, banks, etc. and his opinion was that they can and will be held liable. He is mostly responsible for convincing businesses to remove the "No Weapons" placards from their establishments; namely Walmart. According to the instructor (and others) when CCW first became legal in NC Walmart placed the stickers on all their doors. They later consulted with this guy and promptly removed them.

    Again, I don't know as I am not an attorney BUT if I were a business owner I don't think I'd want to find out. I've heard of crazier, yet successful, lawsuits.
    What is this instructors name? I also don't think he is being honest when he tells his students that. Any judge using logic would realize that it is upon the customer to decide whether they would want to enter unarmed or not. I don't think this lawsuit would fly as it violates all business law and common sense.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by wjh2657 View Post
    Ran this by my " Legal Beagles" (JAGs) at drill last month. Their belief is that nobody can be held liable to defend you as , per U.S.Supreme Court decisions, you are the only one responsible for the defense of your person against an aggressor. Their argument is that once made aware of restriction against carry, you can exercise the option of not dealing or working in that establishment. Therefore the decision to be armed or not armed is in your hands. If you elect to enter unarmed, then you lose and it is not the owners' liability. The only way you can sue is if the owner shoots you on the premisis.

    Think about it, you can't even hold the police liable to protect you.
    Precisely how it should be.

  12. #72
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  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tecumseh View Post
    I have to provide reasonable protection for my customers as a store owner. Things that are foreseeable. A robbery or shooting does not happen because of my actions as a store owner. However though you as a customer concede that my safety precautions are enough when you come into my store to do some shopping. If you don't feel safe in my store, then please feel free to shop at my competitor.

    I don't want anyone to think that I am anti-gun, I am just very pro-property rights as private property rights are teh heart of capitalism and Western Civilization.

    Flame suit on: I agree with you too as much as I defend the 2nd. Therefore we shall never meet in a store that you might own. I will take my business elsewhere everytime. And I DO expect others to behave in a manner that I dictate while on my private property. As a student at Illinois State University I wonder how much you understand about the shopping public.

    As a retired military person I fought for and fully understand these rights. While there are people that excercise these rights against what I believe, I appricate their ability to do so.

    We can not, nor will we ever all agree. But we must learn to understand others differences so we can get along in a friendly atmosphere as Americans.

    There are others that may shop at your place of business and so be it. That will be good for you and your family. I wish you good returns on your investment. I don't see you as a bad guy for banning me from your business. I see this as an oppotunity to spread the wealth.

    I enjoy seeing people actually making and sticking by their informed decisions. It makes for a better world when people make a stand and defend it. Where problems usually crop up is in malls and property that is rented I believe. Your rights there might be different.

    Arguments will run for ever on why we're wrong or right as we both have a resonable belief we are doing what we feel is the right thing. I am preaching to the choir I understand, otherwise, you wouldn't be here on this forum, right? Could it be that you too are struggling with making a decision about this issue?
    Certified Glock Armorer

  14. #74
    Member Array Scouse's Avatar
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    Sign on door?

    I live in Florida, no one takes any notice of those signs, all the shop owner can do is ask you to leave, which you would.

    In the case mentioned... I would tap on the glass, on the sign, when attention gained, shake head, and leave.

  15. #75
    Ex Member Array Deanimator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sspargo View Post
    How many times have you turned around and gone back to your vehicle after seeing this sign? How many ignore it? I have been encouraged by LEO to turn around and refuse to patronize these establishments. I'm considering putting together a website that users can log in and list/tag these types of businesses within each state so that CCW Permit holders can completely avoid them. Is this something that already exists? If so, where can I find it?

    Your thoughts??

    Where I live? Rarely. Almost the only places where I can't carry here are CPZs STATUTORILY, like Post Offices, government buildings, and establishments with by the drink liquor licenses.

    The bigger malls are posted (but the parking lots, even though posted, are only civil trespass; leave if asked.).
    Best Cuts is posted.
    A few office buildings I don't have to go in are posted.
    Half-Price Books is posted.

    NONE of the banks are posted.
    NONE of the grocery stores are posted.
    NONE of the drugstores are posted.
    The closest mall isn't posted, and neither are the stores.
    The building across from where I used to work was posted and now no longer is, after a man with a gun incident. The owner knows that numbers of his tenants have CHLs, and drew the appropriate lesson.
    Kinkos used to be posted but no longer is. I don't know why and don't intend to ask. If it's not posted, you can carry there.

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