Employment discrimination against gun owners? - Page 4

Employment discrimination against gun owners?

This is a discussion on Employment discrimination against gun owners? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by wolfshead I don't think they can go through a person's personal items without a search warrant or an LEO present. I doubt ...

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Thread: Employment discrimination against gun owners?

  1. #46
    Senior Member Array Landric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfshead View Post
    I don't think they can go through a person's personal items without a search warrant or an LEO present. I doubt company security has the right unless specifically posted "No weapons permitted beyond this point - Subject to search". Also, there was no incident where this person indicated or displayed any disturbing or threatening behaviour so I feel its unfair for them to inform the new company and create a fear psychosis.
    Only the government needs search warrants, people not acting in the interest of the government (that is its employees or agents) don't need to have, and in fact can't obtain, a search warrant.


    I think the OP, Irish, has a great civil case against her former employer (and perhaps the second one that terminated her after the first one blabbed).
    -Landric

    "The Engine could still smile...it seemed to scare them" -Felix


  2. #47
    New Member Array wickedrider's Avatar
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    I realize that you have a ton of responses, however here is one more.

    The first employer in your situation when confronted is going to say that he heard from an employee that you were concealing a weapon in your purse. That the employee and the employer were concerned with the safety and welfare of everyone at the place of employment. It was that concern that prompted him to search your purse.

    He should have asked you first, if you were carrying and shouldn't have searched your purse without permission. You might have a cause of action against him, but what would you get for damages? Probably nothing and not worth it as far as the search is concerned.

    You mentioned that your first place of employment was going through layoffs. Consequently, I think that you were laid off and not terminated. If that is not true and you were terminated for having a firearm on the premises and there was no policy. Go for it. You probably could get some type of settlement.

    If your second employer will admit that an administrator from your first employer told them about your personnel issues,(the gun possession), the you definitely have a cause of action against the first employer. From my understanding, the first employer may tell the second employer the following: That you were employed at the first company, the dates of the employment, and whether you were eligible for rehire.

    There may be some other things that they may say BUT THEY DEFINITELY CANNOT DIVULGE ANYTHING NEGATIVE FROM YOUR PERSONNEL FILE.

    Definitely, see a lawyer. My only concern would be whether these statements were made to the second employer.

  3. #48
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    There has been some commentary on whether or not the company can go through her purse. It might be, depending on what state she is in and the case law in that place, that even a written company policy allowing them to search your effects would be invalid.

    People sign all manner of agreements and contracts which contain unenforceable or even illegal provisions. This is quite common with things like apartment leases, which often contain provisions the courts have nullified or won't enforce. There are public policy issues about things like searches, and I'd not be at all surprised if there are limits on what can and can not be searched by an employer based on case law.

    Only an employment lawyer in your jurisdiction can answer this with any reasonable chance of coming up with a correct answer.

    While it is true that the OP suffered no immediate damage from the search (it sounded to me like she voluntarily left), she did ultimately suffer damage from the information the first employer gleaned from the search.

    I agree with the poster who said something as follows: she talked about being licensed and carrying. Someone in management overheard, and decided to check. Why on earth they didn't simply ask is beyond comprehension. That shows a peculiar mind-set, born out by their subsequent actions, and reveals a total contempt for their employees.

    Finally, never carry off your body. It is just too easy to lose control of the gun. In this case, it could just as easily have been stolen out of the purse--I'm assuming the OP wasn't present when the purse was searched.

    If she was present when the purse was searched, then she gave permission by not objecting on the spot and leaving. Of course this has no bearing on the malicious behavior of passing info to the new employer which the first one must have known would not sit well with the new employer.

  4. #49
    Senior Member Array LeCalsey's Avatar
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    I own and run a business. What was done is ABSOLUTELY ILLEGAL by both companies and you should see out an attorney. It is a NO BRAINER for an attorney and they will settle without it going to court. You cannot go through an employees' purse or personal items

    More importantly, your former employer is LIABLE for your subsequent termination due to that disclosure. HUGE mistake
    2A is not negotiable

  5. #50
    Member Array wolfshead's Avatar
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    I think only defense contractors like the one I work for can legally detain any employee and search them. In some cases, lethal force is also permitted. I doubt the same policy holds for non defense related businesses.
    Vince K
    Aerospace Designer, Freemason, NRA member

  6. #51
    Senior Member Array highvoltage's Avatar
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    I'm not sure I can add much to the "legal" advice already posted here, but one thing to think of is burden of proof. It will basically come down to you proving that your private property was confiscated by the first employer. Not just your statement against theirs, that usually won't go very far in a court of law. You'll also need to determine if company policy restricted firearms on the premises.

    Now as far as improper termination, that's where a good attorney should be able to walk you through the details. However, expect to spend a lot of time at this, it won't happen quickly.

    Whichever way it ends, good luck, and keep it concealed.

  7. #52
    Member Array yzcrasher's Avatar
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    The MAJOR missing link for me is what type of job we are talking about here. If your job was cashier for department store (example) there probably is nothing in the handbook supporting what happened. If however your job is "security" related, developement related, (or along those lines) I can just about guarantee there are policies for this very thing.
    Fact, a "sensative" company forbids cell phones, tape recorders, cd players (anything that can record sound or video) anywhere on company property. Now replace any of the above with gun for this case. Said company also has in policy express right to search and seize any of the above. Done deal and terminated if found.
    Again for all those screaming foul...it's all relative and we just don't know all the issues in this situation.
    Same can also be said about the "disclosure" of info... depends on the job......
    ((Place funny, whitty comment here))

  8. #53
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    Developing proof???

    Quote Originally Posted by highvoltage View Post
    I'm not sure I can add much to the "legal" advice already posted here, but one thing to think of is burden of proof. .
    Developing proof may be the big stumbling block. IT is a given that both first and second employer, and their employees who acted on their behalf, will all be telling tall tales.

    A skillful questioner might perhaps be able to develop the truth during discovery, but it might be extremely difficult to do so.

    The decisions about this aspect of things are best left to whomever agrees to with this for you. And if no one will, likely it is because the effort to develop "proof" and the amount likely to be awarded in damages won't jibe.

    Actually, as I read through this thread start to finish, I was thinking of telling the OP to quickly take up Hitch King's offer.

  9. #54
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    I would take the life lesson that you learned and put it to good use. As the big lion guy says "Always carry, never tell". Then I would get on with my life.
    It is surely true that you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. Nor can you make them grateful for your efforts.

  10. #55
    Distinguished Member Array AutoFan's Avatar
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    Consult an employment lawyer (or whatever they call themselves) and inquire as to the validity of a claim against one or both of the companies. If the lawyer will work for a cut of the settlement, it won't cost you anything unless you win. You may have signed something that allowed them to search your purse, but I sincerely doubt there is anything that allows them to take something out of your purse, unless it is believed to be company property. A company can terminate you or escort you from the premises or even call the cops, but if they take an item that is not company property into their possession, I believe they have just committed a crime (or a civil tort). For example, if I as an employer find illegal drugs in my employee's locker and take them, I am now in possession of illegal drugs.

    Depending on how they informed the second company, they may have defamed your reputation.

    As for the second company, they may co-operate since they could legally fire you for no reason whatsoever, but don't want to get pulled into a lawsuit.

  11. #56
    Member Array steyrsdad's Avatar
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    lawyer

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    Guns dont kill people. people kill people
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  12. #57
    Member Array steyrsdad's Avatar
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    lawyer

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  13. #58
    VIP Member Array HKinNY's Avatar
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    The attorney will subpoena all of the parties down for an EBT. Examination Before Trial. My in house attorney would pull these people apart. If half of the story that Irish posted is true, Big settlement. After reviewing the case most attorneys would take in on contingency. If they win the attorney would take 33 percent. If you lose it cost you nothing. I don't believe in suing for the sake of suing but 1st employer is 1,000 percent wrong for contacting new employer.
    Yes, people can be fired/let go for all sorts of reason. I have been mad and tossed many an employee to the curb. (figurative) but I be darned If I called up the new employer and told them why I bounced them. No way. There are laws to prevent people bashing with regard to new employment. I have asked potential hires former employers. "Would you ever rehire this person ?" If they replied "Nope, Never, Not a chance" I have passed on the hiring.

  14. #59
    Restricted Member Array SelfDefense's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    IT is a given that both first and second employer, and their employees who acted on their behalf, will all be telling tall tales.
    What??????

    Are you suggesting that people typically lie when presenting evidence. You have been listening to Reid, Pelosi and Obama too long.

    Normal people tell the truth. In fact, we have frequent ethics training classes to reinforce what should be natural.

    It is a very distorted view of human behavior to believe people will lie ('it is a given') to authorities. I knew the 42nd president sent a very bad message to America.

  15. #60
    VIP Member Array Tom G's Avatar
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    File that lawsuit and make it a big one . Go get the jerk.

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