Church Safety - Page 2

Church Safety

This is a discussion on Church Safety within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Hey, this one is for all you church-goers (pastors too) out there. What plans do you have in place for safety in your house of ...

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Thread: Church Safety

  1. #16
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    Array HotGuns's Avatar
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    Hey, this one is for all you church-goers (pastors too) out there. What plans do you have in place for safety in your house of worship in the event that a shooter should come in? Have you discussed this with your pastor or other people who legally carry concealed?
    In Arkansas we cannot legally carry in a church. We were very close to fixing that in the last legislative session, but some Presbyterians Legislators in the General Assembly took it upon themselves to sabotage and derail legislation that was almost guaranteed to pass. It didn't.

    As a result of that, our churches are still target rich environments where a shooter is just about granted a free pass to a high body count. God forbid that someone might actually be able to stop a shooter, I guess that interfered with the Presbyterian method of choosing to remain defenseless.

    So, since CHL holders cant carry in church, the Sheriff, which attends my church decided to do something about it. We run about two services in the morning, with the early service running around 500 and the second service averaging around 700. The evening services usually sees around 400 or so.

    We are fortunate in the fact that we have many police officers attend. We have a couple of State Police, several city police, the Sheriff and at least 4 deputies, and perhaps 4 or 5 from other small towns close by. Since a sworn police officers is exempt from the exclusions of the AR. CHL, the Sheriff has put together a security team of armed police officers and stationed them in various locations in the church. There is still work to be done, our church is round, has many exits, and a serious cross fire situation is a reality. Imagine a shooter making his way to the pulpit and being fired upon by several officers in a circle around him. Its not an ideal situation, but better than nothing.

    All of this came about as a result of an incident several weeks ago in which a man with a long history of mental problems came into the church,and walked down the isle and confronted the Pastor while he was in the middle of a sermon. Fortunately the Sheriff responded and had the man arrested, he was later admitted to the state mental health hospital.

    I think that it is a sad testament to the direction in which our society is going, but at least we are doing something. Other churches continue to believe that it wont happen to them and refuse to take steps to insure that it doesn't happen.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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  2. #17
    Distinguished Member Array MinistrMalic's Avatar
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    Every church needs a security plan. As a pastor I would seriously suggest that any church that is going to put together a formal security team go to churchsecuritymember.com and get some info. (I am not related in any way) I would also STRONGLY encourage contacting their insurance company and checking on what they have available and what their policies are.

    Our insurance company had a lot of very strict policies for formal security teams...but nothing for informal ones. :) So informal it is! Our church is only about 160-180 on a Sunday, but probably 6-10 of those are armed (me included of course!). Remember, though, that security means far more than an active-shooter scenario; it includes everything from a lost child to a fire to a medical emergency to a distraught/agitated person.
    "...whoever has no sword is to sell his coat and buy one." (Luke 22:36)
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  3. #18
    Member Array Jamie B's Avatar
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    Sadly, the priest at my Catholic church is not as enlightened as I had hoped. I know that he is a deer hunter, and had hoped that he had an open mind.

    In OH, we cannot carry in church unless we have permission. Due to the incidents above, I had always operated under the concealed means concealed doctrine. I approached my priest several weeks ago to solicit his permission to carry. He refused, citing that he would not 'want bullets flying around' if something happened.

    I approached him wanting to be honest - and was quite disappointed. If something takes place, I will get the wife and kids out the back door (we always sit in back, near the door), call 911, and wait with my family and gun in the SUV.

    Very frustrating result when trying to be honest. Lesson learned. I guess that the congretation will truly be sheep.

    Jamie

  4. #19
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    Hey "gunner69"--thanks for the correction. You are absolutley correct--another armed citizen, prepared.

    The news coverage at the time was innaccurate (now, who would ever accuse our media of biased or inaccurate reporting) "But the AP coverage describes her as "a member of the church's armed security staff" and "the security guard." Since it quotes the pastor much the same way as the CNS story does, it sounds like a report on the same interview or conference. And the Rocky Mtn News describes her as "a church security officer."

    I was just lazy enough to not dig deeper...........

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamie B View Post
    Sadly, the priest at my Catholic church is not as enlightened as I had hoped. I know that he is a deer hunter, and had hoped that he had an open mind.

    In OH, we cannot carry in church unless we have permission. Due to the incidents above, I had always operated under the concealed means concealed doctrine. I approached my priest several weeks ago to solicit his permission to carry. He refused, citing that he would not 'want bullets flying around' if something happened.

    I approached him wanting to be honest - and was quite disappointed. If something takes place, I will get the wife and kids out the back door (we always sit in back, near the door), call 911, and wait with my family and gun in the SUV.

    Very frustrating result when trying to be honest. Lesson learned. I guess that the congretation will truly be sheep.

    Jamie
    Sounds like the priest is only concerned with your spiritual being and not the rest of you.

  6. #21
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    Our church does a graduation thing in June on a Sunday, recognizing college and high school graduates. Dad mentioned if I would come in uniform and I said only if I could carry. He mentioned he did not know how the church would feel about this, my comment back was Im in church, Ill be forgiven. And yes I'll be sweating my butt off wearing my vest in good old June Ohio weather.
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  7. #22
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    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose. - Jim Elliott

    The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it.
    Albert Einstein

  8. #23
    VIP Member Array Patti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JSBaker View Post
    "I know Vaughn Baker. His dad was my science teacher.

    What a small world."

    That's funny! He is a good man.

    And there's no relation--honest!
    Yes. Vaughn is a good guy.

    His dad is too. When I was in the 9th grade, I was in the Biology Club. His dad took a bunch of us kids on a canoe trip.

    Didn't mean to hijack the thread.

    Carry on.
    Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the gospel of envy. Winston Churchill

  9. #24
    Ex Member Array United93's Avatar
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    Thanks for the list.

  10. #25
    Senior Member Array JohnK87's Avatar
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    I started talking to my church leadership about this topic and they are starting to think about putting together a team. I'm going to press more and ask to put it together, that website helps. I also need to get written permission to carry in half of the church area as it includes a private K-8 school and day care (per MN law) but I don't need one in the parking lot or church areas.
    ‎An enemy of liberty is no friend of mine. I do not owe respect to anyone who would enslave me by government force, nor is it wise for such a person to expect it. -- Isaiah Amberay

  11. #26
    Member Array Cajun's Avatar
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    Just last week, Louisiana passed SB291. This allows "security personnel" to carry in Church.
    D

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adamcop84 View Post
    I carry no matter what the place or the scenario, my wife gives me a hard time when i carry just to eat at abc pizza...but whatever im gonna be ready, you never know with all the crazies runnin around now a days...
    Me too! Matter of fact -- I carry EVERYWHERE!!! Damn the signs, I'd rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6 anyday!!! It's the risk I am willing to take! If you see me -- you can bet your butt I'm a packin'!!

  13. #28
    Member Array bigdogtx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamie B View Post
    Sadly, the priest at my Catholic church is not as enlightened as I had hoped. I know that he is a deer hunter, and had hoped that he had an open mind.

    In OH, we cannot carry in church unless we have permission. Due to the incidents above, I had always operated under the concealed means concealed doctrine. I approached my priest several weeks ago to solicit his permission to carry. He refused, citing that he would not 'want bullets flying around' if something happened.

    I approached him wanting to be honest - and was quite disappointed. If something takes place, I will get the wife and kids out the back door (we always sit in back, near the door), call 911, and wait with my family and gun in the SUV.

    Very frustrating result when trying to be honest. Lesson learned. I guess that the congretation will truly be sheep.

    Jamie
    What if the gunman comes IN the back door? You may want to check with another priest at another church. In these economic times, many churches are "welcoming" new parishioners, so your request may be honored there.

    God gave me the responsibility of protecting my family and I take that responsibility to heart.

    BTW, you could probably put a small carbine under your choir robe. Just a thought.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thumper View Post
    Hey Pastor,

    My church leadership is very happy to know that I am there as a "Sheep Dog" but unfortunately is so afraid of "liability" that there is NO intention on their part to officially sanction or even recognize a "Security Team" especially an armed one. A few of us "individuals" have talked about training together but it seems like a waste of our time to even try to get the leadership on board.
    One would think in this day and age, (see OP list) the church would be exposed to liability by not having a security team/plan in play.
    While people are saying "Peace and safety," destruction will come on them suddenly, ... and they will not escape. 1Th 5:3

  15. #30
    pax
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    PastorPack ~

    Where'd you get that list -- did you compile it yourself or glean it from elsewhere?

    pax
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    My website: Cornered Cat

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