Reciprocity can be a recipe for disaster.

This is a discussion on Reciprocity can be a recipe for disaster. within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; With all the talk about reciprocity I have detected a real trap. many seem to get multiple non-resident permits (No classes required) and then demonstrate ...

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 35

Thread: Reciprocity can be a recipe for disaster.

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array wjh2657's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Lafayette, Tennessee
    Posts
    1,166

    Reciprocity can be a recipe for disaster.

    With all the talk about reciprocity I have detected a real trap. many seem to get multiple non-resident permits (No classes required) and then demonstrate a lack of knowledge about local laws pertaining to carry. No matter what yor local laws nor the laws of the state from which you obtain your NR permit say, the local laws are in force. Make very,very sure you understand the local state laws when carrying into another state (see HandLaw sticky.)

    Example: In Tennessee it is not brandishing if you show your weapon in its holster while adjusting your clothing (TN has OCC and CCW, with HCP)but in Texas, which allows almost anything with a weapon, it is an act of brandishing and can land you in deep trouble. Many other states have laws that can be tricky. A right to carry does not mean carrying any way you want to. You are governed by local laws. Get real familiar with sites on Handgun Law before carrying into another state. The permit/license is just a part of the carry system!
    Retired Marine, Retired School Teacher, Independent voter, Goldwater Conservative.

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #2
    Member Array k6gixx's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Ft. Worth, TX
    Posts
    75
    actually that's not true. In Texas you have to intentionally display your firearm in order for it to be considered brandishing. It would take a peace officer who is having a SERIOUSLY bad day to hem you up for accidental exposure of a firearm.
    The American flag does not fly because the wind moves past it-The American flag flies from the last breath of each military member who has died protecting it, American soldiers don't fight because they hate what's in front of them...they fight because they love what's behind them."

  4. #3
    VIP Member Array grady's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Near St. Louis, Missouri
    Posts
    2,837
    True point about knowing the local laws.

    On a trip through Kansas last year, I made a note to myself NOT to stop at those turnpike gas stations or state-owned rest stops. I don't remember why, but it was due to something I read while researching KS's laws.

    And it seems Oklahoma is much stricter about a gun being seen in a car's passenger compartment. I think it's strictly forbidden to have it visible.

    IIRC, in Texas one MUST notify LEO if carrying, otherwise it might turn into a firearm-related offense that may affect carry status.

    I also learned New Mexico only allows 1 concealed carry gun at a time. I guess that's fair, because surely the BG's will only be carrying 1 gun.

    Handgunlaw.us is a good starting point for research, but I would visit the actual state sites before finalizing my research. I found a Missouri law issue that was left off the summary at handgunlaw.us

  5. #4
    Moderator
    Array RETSUPT99's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Central Florida
    Posts
    43,807
    I don't think that reciprocity creates a 'ton' of problems. If one is somewhat knowledgeabe of the laws of the state(s) 'visited' (and there is certainly enough online to find out) and uses common sense in going about daily routines...you'll be OK.


    I'm definitely not suggesting anything illegal, but...if you stay concealed, it will certainly override any unintentional 'mistakes'...who will know?

    Keep in mind: Do I have to inform LE if stopped? Where/when can I carry around alcohol?
    The last Blood Moon Tetrad for this millennium starts in April 2014 and ends in September 2015...according to NASA.

    ***********************************
    Certified Glock Armorer
    NRA Life Member[/B]

  6. #5
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    24,174
    Quote Originally Posted by wjh2657 View Post
    With all the talk about reciprocity I have detected a real trap.
    I'm of the opinion that the trap is with ignorance of the applicable laws, not with reciprocity.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  7. #6
    VIP Member
    Array archer51's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    VA
    Posts
    20,452
    With all the talk about reciprocity I have detected a real trap.
    I see no trap in it. Anyone carrying a gun needs to research the laws where they are going to be carrying. If they don't and get into trouble it has nothing to do with reciprocity, it has to do lack of knowledge and research on their part.

  8. #7
    Senior Member Array jem102's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    East TN
    Posts
    1,009
    These are very good points! I live in TN and that was written into our law so if the wind blows your jacket back getting out of the car exposing your gun the LEO can't get out of line with you, can it be technically construed as "open carry?" YES, but the legislatures intent was to protect the permit holder rather than provide an open carry in a crowded mall of sheep if you will. Now I absolutely believe that requiring a law abiding person to have a permit requiring renewal is a load of male bovine excrement (I do NOT disagree with a first time, ONE TIME, competency test, permit, background check or whatever you want to call it. After that let me alone and go catch bad guys). I feel the reciprocity agreements have grown way faster and larger than I ever expected! Let us not mess up what we have by becoming "unwelcome" guests in other states because we could not honor their requirements, we need to keep this thing rolling and some day down the line a ways we can flex some more muscle when a bulk of the states have solid agreements.
    QUESTION: What happens to your home state permit if you take a hit in a reciprocity state???

    Thanks, John

  9. #8
    Senior Moderator
    Array HotGuns's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Arkansas
    Posts
    14,627
    QUESTION: What happens to your home state permit if you take a hit in a reciprocity state???
    In Arkansas, ANY weapons related infraction could be grounds for getting your permit revoked.

    A point that I make very plain when teaching CHL classes.
    The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it...- George Orwell

    AR. CHL Instr. 07/02 FFL
    Like custom guns and stuff? Check this out...
    http://bobbailey1959.wordpress.com/

  10. #9
    Ex Member Array Ram Rod's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Fayetteville, AR
    Posts
    13,687
    Most laws are made to keep you confused and put you at risk whenever or wherever. That's why I wear sunglasses most of the time....don't want to be accused of looking at anyone the wrong way.

  11. #10
    VIP Member
    Array msgt/ret's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    6,765
    When traveling not only do I research the laws for the states I will travel through but I also print them out along with the states reciprocity agreements, that way I have them as a ready reference.
    When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk.
    "Don't forget, incoming fire has the right of way."

  12. #11
    Senior Member Array Chevy-SS's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Rhode Island
    Posts
    924
    Quote Originally Posted by archer51 View Post
    .....Anyone carrying a gun needs to research the laws where they are going to be carrying. If they don't and get into trouble it has nothing to do with reciprocity, it has to do lack of knowledge and research on their part.

    No disrespect to your post - but IMHO it is exactly this kind of acceptance of gun law ambiguity that the Brady Campaign and other virulent anti-gun groups are counting on.

    As we placidly allow the anti-gunners to introduce more and more "reasonable" laws and technicalities into each political district, then the responsibility of trying to comply will become too burdensome. Thus, the anti-gunners will have defeated us simply by introducing and passing volumes of "reasonable", yet confusing, local laws.

    We need to push for consistency and uniformity in gun laws, and hopefully promote sane, common sense regulations that a reasonable and prudent citizen can easily abide by.

    -
    'Be careful, even in small matters' - Miyamoto Musashi

  13. #12
    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    State of Discombobulation
    Posts
    5,254
    I too see no "trap" with reciprocity.

    It is your responsibility to know the law. "Ignorance of the law is no excuse. It might, and I stress "might" be a mitigating factor, but it's not an excuse and I wouldn't count on a mitigating factor to excuse illegal behavior. It may, or may not, influence the sentencing portion of your adventures through the criminal justice system however.

    Biker

  14. #13
    Senior Member Array FastDraw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    589
    Quote Originally Posted by Chevy-SS View Post
    No disrespect to your post - but IMHO it is exactly this kind of acceptance of gun law ambiguity that the Brady Campaign and other virulent anti-gun groups are counting on.

    As we placidly allow the anti-gunners to introduce more and more "reasonable" laws and technicalities into each political district, then the responsibility of trying to comply will become too burdensome. Thus, the anti-gunners will have defeated us simply by introducing and passing volumes of "reasonable", yet confusing, local laws.

    We need to push for consistency and uniformity in gun laws, and hopefully promote sane, common sense regulations that a reasonable and prudent citizen can easily abide by.



    -
    Good post

    Be Alert and Stay Safe

    FastDraw

  15. #14
    Distinguished Member Array tiwee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Oz
    Posts
    1,708
    I agree with Chevy-SS and think JEM102 proposes a good solution. Let us keep our heads up and look to the future. A model concealed carry system that is adopted by individual states would be ideal. It would be a lot of work and take a long time, but it would encourage more people to carry.

  16. #15
    VIP Member
    Array archer51's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    VA
    Posts
    20,452
    Quote Originally Posted by Chevy-SS View Post
    No disrespect to your post - but IMHO it is exactly this kind of acceptance of gun law ambiguity that the Brady Campaign and other virulent anti-gun groups are counting on.

    As we placidly allow the anti-gunners to introduce more and more "reasonable" laws and technicalities into each political district, then the responsibility of trying to comply will become too burdensome. Thus, the anti-gunners will have defeated us simply by introducing and passing volumes of "reasonable", yet confusing, local laws.

    We need to push for consistency and uniformity in gun laws, and hopefully promote sane, common sense regulations that a reasonable and prudent citizen can easily abide by.

    -
    No disrespect taken. However we do not live in a perfect world and must deal with that. In a perfect world all laws in all states would be the same. Each state have different driving laws also. You are required to obey the driving laws of the state your in. If not you can be ticketed and fined. For example there are some states that do not allow a right turn on a red light. If you are from a state that allows it and do it in a state that does not, you will probably be stopped and more than likely ticketed. Hunting and fishing laws are different from state to state as well. It is the individuals responsibility to know and adhere to the laws where they are at.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. 700x .380 recipe
    By farronwolf in forum Reloading
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: December 11th, 2010, 12:27 PM
  2. Homemade Gun Lube (Recipe)
    By crue2009 in forum Firearm Cleaning & Maintenance
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: October 26th, 2009, 08:40 PM
  3. Looking for a 40S&W Plinking recipe
    By CT-Mike in forum Reloading
    Replies: 24
    Last Post: March 10th, 2009, 07:01 PM
  4. Worlds Best Frutcake Recipe
    By Sheldon J in forum Off Topic & Humor Discussion
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: November 1st, 2008, 04:03 PM
  5. Best .45 recipe
    By friesepferd in forum Reloading
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: December 2nd, 2007, 08:22 AM

Search tags for this page

accidental exposure ccw arkansas

,

can i carry at kentucky state parks

,

ccw recep

,

concealed carry in kentucky state parks

,

ky ccdw recioity with tn

,

oregon disaster gun laws

,

recipe reciprocity states

,

reciprocity of disaster

,

technicalities teaching reciprocity

,

tn recep states for weapons

,

unintentional exposure of weapon in oklahoma

,

what is limited reciprocity

Click on a term to search for related topics.