a what if based on a real experience

This is a discussion on a what if based on a real experience within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; All other advice aside (don't go to parties like this ETC.), assuming I was in this exact situation armed and sober (attending as a DD ...

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Thread: a what if based on a real experience

  1. #16
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    All other advice aside (don't go to parties like this ETC.), assuming I was in this exact situation armed and sober (attending as a DD or something)... I would have shot them when they broke the window with a crow bar. You had retreated inside and locked the door. When they breached the exterior of the home they became fair game. The guys reaching in the window would each have gotten at least two COM. This would seem like a pretty cut and dry self defense shoot to me. Armed bad guys trying to come into a home where they are not welcome. BANG...BANG
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  3. #17
    Senior Member Array Avenger's Avatar
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    I used to attend parties like this all the time I was young and stupid. Thought I knew it all and that got me into more trouble that need be. However, I NEVER carry to a party, even now. If I know beer or liquer will be served, I either leave my gun in my car locked up, or dont go.

    In your situation, I would have your gun in your car and retreat to it. If the attackers follow you and you fear for your life then its a justified shooting. If you have been drinking, just run away and hide. Waid for the LEO!

    No need to be a hero. Carrying a gun comes HUGE responsiblity and you need to know when its okay to unholster.

    I think your situation is a hard judgment call and made me really think of what I would have done in your shoes. Just be a good witness.

  4. #18
    Member Array natticarry's Avatar
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    and that was kinda the point of the question. it was a tough spot and I am not sure what the right answer would have been. If I did as some suggest and had people stand away from the door then they would have definitely got inside which forces me into about a 50/50 on if they are going to stop when they see the gun or if I am going to have to shoot. As it was the guys managed to hold the door LE showed up in time and no one was really hurt. But if the LE was 1 or 2 minutes later I think they would have gotten in and things would have been ugly. If I were armed I would have been stuck with friendlies mixed with BGs (so no real shooting option) and the concern that someone hits me in the head with a crowbar, discovers my firearm and causes a worse situation.

    and as stated before it really wasn't a bad neighborhood the guys watching the door were to make sure people not invited didn't come in and mooch drinks.. food etc. Its a college area and people go party hopping especially on Halloween.

  5. #19
    Member Array natticarry's Avatar
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    as for the reason this group of people were around if its not really a bad area. I suppose it might be a generational thing but it seems like now a days there is a bad element that exists around most colleges now and they do not stick to one particular area but are more interspersed among the normal people.

    Sad to say even dorms have serious issues with theft and assaults despite their layers of security and supervision...oh and their no weapons policies lol.

  6. #20
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    Only thing I can really think of would be drill the first guy through the door, because if you were carrying you wouldn't be drinking. Right?!

    At that point you gotta hope that acts as strong enough of a warning to the rest of the group that they want nothing thats happening at this party. If that isn't enough warning for the rest of them your probably going to die. 10-15 double taps is alot to expect in a very short distance with at least one mag change.

    But don't worry your friends will remember how you saved their lives as they ran out of the house while the remaining BG's beat you to death with the aforementioned crowbars.

    its a very unwinable scenario if the group remains determined beyond the first couple shots.
    There's nothing wrong with shooting so long as the right people get shot. -- Dirty Harry Calahan

  7. #21
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    Does Ohio have a Castle Doctrine? If not, I don't think you could shoot once they broke the window. (That is rediculous to me though!) If Ohio is a CD state, then I agree with atctimmy. The first guy to put hands etc. through the broken window gets 2 COM. Anyone outside who does not scatter after that obviously has bad intentions for me and others inside. They are risking their lives to stay there.
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  8. #22
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    Marshall everyone in to a "safe room", barricade the door with a dresser and stand by to repel boarders. Also, have 911 on the line and tell them you are armed and a home invasion is in progress.

    This way, if you are forced to shoot you have shown that you have retreated to the furthest reaches of the home and are trying to avoid a confrontation. Shooting someone that is breaking the window to gain entry is a lot different than shooting someone that has already broken in and is in the act of breaking through another barricade.

    All in all I think you learned that the survival instinct is strong, as your searching for a weapon proved. It may have only been a steak knife, but I have seen someone killed with less.

    "There are no winners in a gunfight, only survivors."

    My house parties are always attended by armed and trained people. I guess that's why we don't have such foolishness at my parties.

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  9. #23
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    If you have anything to drink and then use weapon, you lose. "Impaired thinking" will be the Prosecution/Plaintiff cry and your reasonable fear goes right out the window. I partied a lot when I was young and I think everybody should enjoy their youth to the fullest. Just realize that once you enter that type of zone, the gun is no longer a viable option. It may even be legal but you are going to lose in court, so not viable.

    The 3 S principle should be in place. However I do believe everybody has a right to get "stupid" once in a while. It is better than snapping or ending up on heavy prescriptions later. Just leave the piece at home.

    Cops in many departments are required to follow this rule off duty. I know that in Chicago the cops had to get rid of the gun before stopping for a drink on the way home and no guns at barbeques with beer. If it is a good rule for a cop, it is probably a good rule for us too.
    Retired Marine, Retired School Teacher, Independent voter, Goldwater Conservative.

  10. #24
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    That is a armed home invasion. The force reguired to stop it is going to be justified. When the guy stuck his hand through the window he should have withdrawn a bloody stub. Breaking the door down, shots fired.

    Semper Fi

  11. #25
    Member Array natticarry's Avatar
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    I agree with all the alcohol and guns don't mix statements. I was trying to make clear that if I had chosen to carry I most defiantly would not have drank anything and even then its questionable if I had carried. But also I considered if the scenario was modified and this was my own residence so I wasn't carrying but possibly had a firearm locked in the house and had enough warning to be able to get it out and load it. It would be a tough call even then what to do since I had been drinking. I would have probably got it out and if they made it in I would have used it and possibly gone to jail but at least I wouldn't be dead.

  12. #26
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    Ohio is a castle doctrine state. In a non CD state I would take bikers advice...
    Marshall everyone into a "safe room", barricade the door with a dresser and stand by to repel boarders. Also, have 911 on the line and tell them you are armed and a home invasion is in progress.
    I particularly like the repel boarders part because then you get wear an eyepatch and use cutlasses and pikes. :)
    Mark Twain:
    The government is merely a servant -- merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a
    patriot and who isn't. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them.

  13. #27
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    This issue is now been hammered to death.
    Guns and alcohol at a college party would not go well in the media.
    Where duty to retreat in the home may not seem like something anyone should HAVE to do...common sense should prevail here.
    At the first sign of trouble, I would have left.
    In a self-defense situation out on the street while trying to get into the car would seem easier to defend than shooting someone at a college party.
    I'm not suggesting that anyone would leave a house that is being invaded as that is the time to be calling 911 and sit tight. It's just that the two situations seem miles apart in explaining how/why one had to defend against a threat.
    I would avoid such situations in the future, but that's just me.
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  14. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by natticarry View Post
    I agree with all the alcohol and guns don't mix statements. I was trying to make clear that if I had chosen to carry I most defiantly would not have drank anything and even then its questionable if I had carried. But also I considered if the scenario was modified and this was my own residence so I wasn't carrying but possibly had a firearm locked in the house and had enough warning to be able to get it out and load it. It would be a tough call even then what to do since I had been drinking. I would have probably got it out and if they made it in I would have used it and possibly gone to jail but at least I wouldn't be dead.
    I'm of the opinion that if I host a party I don't drink. Reason behind this is not to be ready to repel borders but more for the fact that you have a bunch of drunken fools at your place. There always needs to be one person with logic in tact.
    There's nothing wrong with shooting so long as the right people get shot. -- Dirty Harry Calahan

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