I asked the question of my company - Page 2

I asked the question of my company

This is a discussion on I asked the question of my company within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by glock45 What happened to ALWAYS CARRY, NEVER TELL? I carry at work and I haven't said a word. There is no policy ...

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  1. #16
    Distinguished Member Array tinkerinWstuff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glock45 View Post
    What happened to ALWAYS CARRY, NEVER TELL?
    I carry at work and I haven't said a word. There is no policy against it, so I believe I'm good. The owner is a bit anti, but who cares?
    I carry a G30 will 11 rounds of Federal HST +p .45
    The company handbook at Paco's employer specifically says no CCW or knives. A little different than your situation. Not much room for carry and never tell unless you wish to break policy and lose your job or worse depending on state law.

    However, my employer is the same way G45. No handbook or signs so I opt to travel the "easier to get forgiveness than permission" road.

    Back to the regular scheduled programming....
    "Run for your life from the man who tells you that money is evil. That sentence is the leper's bell of an approaching looter. So long as men live together on earth and need means to deal with one another-their only substitute, if they abandon money, is the muzzle of a gun."

    Who is John Galt?


  2. #17
    Senior Member Array highvoltage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glock45 View Post
    What happened to ALWAYS CARRY, NEVER TELL?
    I carry at work and I haven't said a word. There is no policy against it, so I believe I'm good. The owner is a bit anti, but who cares?
    I carry a G30 will 11 rounds of Federal HST +p .45
    Rules against weapons are specifically stated in our Policies and Procedures and posted outside our areas. I like my job, so I'll abide by their rules.

  3. #18
    VIP Member Array Paco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by highvoltage View Post
    Rules against weapons are specifically stated in our Policies and Procedures and posted outside our areas. I like my job, so I'll abide by their rules.
    Same here, and in a right to work state I don't want to make too many waves. I feel confident enough in my other "tools" I can deploy that outside of a multiple gunman attack I would be good to go in defending myself or someone else.
    "Don't hit a man if you can possibly avoid it; but if you do hit him, put him to sleep." - Theodore Roosevelt

    -Paco
    http://www.shieldsd.net

  4. #19
    Senior Member Array KenInColo's Avatar
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    Several years ago, in the corporate HQ of a well known company, in a very gun unfriendly state back east, a female employee was severely slashed by another employee. Another employee who went to her aid was also slashed.

    Prior to the assault, the victim, on more than one occasion, had complained to management about the slasher's remarks to her and his stalking (this was before stalking was a crime) of her, both inside the building & around her residence.

    The victim did recover, but with substantial nerve damage in her arms (from defensive wounds). She filed a lawsuit against the company which was of course, settled out-of-court. Rumor has it that she got several million in cash & enough stock to make her one of the top ten largest shareholders of the company.

    The slasher escaped & was apprehended months later in another state when he threw a full beer can at a state police vehicle on I-95.
    An armed populace are called citizens.
    An unarmed populace are called subjects.

  5. #20
    Member Array One of Many's Avatar
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    it is the fear and perception that one develops when they see someone (outside of law enforcement) with a weapon - that can be very frightening to the average person, and ccould create a working environment that is threatening and hostile. Think about from this angle - what if you and me got into an argument and I had a concealed weapon on me (and you knew I did), how would you feel? Maybe a bit threatening and put off not knowing what I might do, if pushed to the limits... This is only one example of how allowing employees to bear arms on Company name property could create a hostile and intimidating working environment.
    So this company person is saying that if someone knows you are armed, they will not push things to the limit with you, because they will be intimidated and fearful - the flip side is that if they do not know you are armed, they feel safe in pushing you to the limit. It seems that the hostile working environment is created by the employee that feels safe when pushing things to the limit. The hostile work environment is not created by the person who carries a gun for self-defense and wishes to avoid conflict.

    The other problem with the company position is that they expect some or all of the employees to know who is carrying a concealed weapon, and the company states the position that such knowledge creates a hostile environment. Solution: require licensed gun carriers to keep their carry status from becoming common knowledge, and to ensure that the gun is properly concealed at all times.

    Does the company policy forbid employees from telling other employees that they carry a gun when away from work? Does it forbid discussions at break time of firearm related matters (target practice, hunting, etc)? If the entire premise of a hostile work environment is based on the POTENTIAL of some employee being afraid due to perceptions of danger, then all employee conversations concerning weapons of any type and their use, would also have to be prohibited. No hunting stories, no talking about the kids taking self-defense classes after school, no reminiscing about your service in the military and the actions you were involved in. The company by that action creates a hostile and harassing working condition, because they inhibit the normal social interaction of the employees while at the workplace, and the fear of job loss for being discovered in violation of the rules.

  6. #21
    Distinguished Member Array tinkerinWstuff's Avatar
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    Impressive commentary One Of
    "Run for your life from the man who tells you that money is evil. That sentence is the leper's bell of an approaching looter. So long as men live together on earth and need means to deal with one another-their only substitute, if they abandon money, is the muzzle of a gun."

    Who is John Galt?

  7. #22
    Senior Member Array PointnClick's Avatar
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    Are they also afraid of your Tae Kwon Do skills...?

    I know I'd be skeered of getting in an argument with a guy that can kick my teeth out in .8 seconds...

    Just sayin'...
    "Who is to say that I am not an instrument of karma? Indeed, who is to say that I am not the very hand of God himself, dispatched by the Almighty to smite the Philistines and hypocrites, to lay low the dishonest and corrupt, and to bust the jawbone of some jackass that so desperately deserves it?"

  8. #23
    VIP Member Array havegunjoe's Avatar
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    To begin with how do you know the company cannot determine who left the message? Second did you really expect any different response? Acctually they at least gave a better response than I usually see. Usually it's, "for the safety or our employees and visitors" and that is all.
    DEMOCRACY IS TWO WOLVES AND A LAMB VOTING ON WHAT TO HAVE FOR LUNCH. LIBERTY IS A WELL ARMED LAMB CONtestING THE VOTE.

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  9. #24
    VIP Member Array Paco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by havegunjoe View Post
    To begin with how do you know the company cannot determine who left the message? Second did you really expect any different response? Acctually they at least gave a better response than I usually see. Usually it's, "for the safety or our employees and visitors" and that is all.
    We employ a 3rd party who sends the messages between people, so contractually they can't say who is leaving the messages unless a blatant threat or similar situation is made. That is the main reason I used generalized terms.

    I got the answer I expected to get, but was hoping for better.
    "Don't hit a man if you can possibly avoid it; but if you do hit him, put him to sleep." - Theodore Roosevelt

    -Paco
    http://www.shieldsd.net

  10. #25
    Distinguished Member Array tinkerinWstuff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paco View Post
    We employ a 3rd party who sends the messages between people, so contractually they can't say who is leaving the messages unless a blatant threat or similar situation is made. That is the main reason I used generalized terms.

    I got the answer I expected to get, but was hoping for better.
    Am I the only one that gets frustrated when people post without reading? Maybe I need to lighten up but I think you covered both those points in post #6
    http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulle...709-post6.html
    "Run for your life from the man who tells you that money is evil. That sentence is the leper's bell of an approaching looter. So long as men live together on earth and need means to deal with one another-their only substitute, if they abandon money, is the muzzle of a gun."

    Who is John Galt?

  11. #26
    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerinWstuff View Post
    Am I the only one that gets frustrated when people post without reading? Maybe I need to lighten up but I think you covered both those points in post #6
    http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulle...709-post6.html
    I read...but the real question is where did he fill out the entry to send to the third party from? If he filled it out on a computer on the corp network it most certainly is not anonymous...(I used to retrieve various bits of information for the last corp I worked for as part of my job functions)...just a thought...

    Next time turn in a literal typewritten card made while wearing gloves and garb in a clean room. Then proceed to drop off card at a PO drop box in a twice removed State while wearing a disguise... oh and turn off your iflop, crackberry, or other gps enabled phone...yeah I used to track those too for "loss prevention purposes". Paranoid? When it comes to getting fired...you bet yer butt!
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

    "Sure, As long as the machines are workin' and you can call 911. But you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, and you scare the crap out of them; no more rules...You'll see how primitive they can get."
    -The Mist (2007)

  12. #27
    Distinguished Member Array tinkerinWstuff's Avatar
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    As I recal, Paco is an IT guy complete with pocket protector, er - was it pocket holster? Anyway, so I'm sure he logged in as someone he didn't like in the company.
    "Run for your life from the man who tells you that money is evil. That sentence is the leper's bell of an approaching looter. So long as men live together on earth and need means to deal with one another-their only substitute, if they abandon money, is the muzzle of a gun."

    Who is John Galt?

  13. #28
    New Member Array Jigger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by faithmyeyes View Post
    Especially in public corporations, it's not about you or your rights, it's about protecting the company's bottom line from any real or perceived liability. Always. Your safety and your "rights" are important to the company only inasmuch as they contribute to the bottom line.
    _____________
    Perfect summation of the "corps" point of view. I might add that the possible increase in the companies insurance rates may be a factor too.

    BTW, good letter faithmyeyes as was their corporate response. Good luck with pushing the envelope.
    Jigger - Dave

    SIG and H&K fan

  14. #29
    Distinguished Member Array Pro2A's Avatar
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    Don't ask, don't tell.

    My boss probably knows I carry at work, but he doesn't ask, and I have no need to say I do. If he did find out, I really doubt he would care much.

  15. #30
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    I would ask no more questions, and I would never discuss weapons with ANYONE at work.
    The last Blood Moon Tetrad for this millennium starts in April 2014 and ends in September 2015...according to NASA.

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