I asked the question of my company

This is a discussion on I asked the question of my company within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by retsupt99 I would ask no more questions, and I would never discuss weapons with ANYONE at work. Well I am the gun ...

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Thread: I asked the question of my company

  1. #31
    Distinguished Member Array Pro2A's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by retsupt99 View Post
    I would ask no more questions, and I would never discuss weapons with ANYONE at work.
    Well I am the gun guy at work, they all know it. Most don't care as they own guns themselves and are pro-gun, and we talk about guns etc...

    I don't get into concealed carry at work tho, I really don't want to arouse suspicion. They know I carry outside of work, but I leave it at that.

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  3. #32
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    Then it probably doesn't matter what you discuss...only if you decided to conceal and not tell.
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  4. #33
    Distinguished Member Array Pro2A's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by retsupt99 View Post
    Then it probably doesn't matter what you discuss...only if you decided to conceal and not tell.
    Ya, I have no need to tell them I have a gun at work. I could probably get away with it, but I'm not gonna risk it. Concealed is concealed.

  5. #34
    VIP Member Array AllAmerican's Avatar
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    As to the "example" they gave, it assumes the other party would know you are carrying.

    If it were me... pocket carry a very small gun. Dont ask any more questions and dont tell anyone.

    Everyone in both job situations I am involved in know I carry. Oh well, Im the boss and I suggest you carry too.
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  6. #35
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    I used to work for a large company in the network side of the house and if you are using a company computer for this correspondence I guarantee you that nothing is private! They DO know who you are even if they don't immediately use that information.
    ALWAYS carry! - NEVER tell!

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  7. #36
    Member Array BillArkansas's Avatar
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    Always carried other than at former workplace which had strict, immediate loss of job if I found with my weapon. Even in my vehicle.

    However, one reason I have CCP is the city I worked at very violent reputation as verified by nationwide stats (Memphis, TN is city). Also have CCP for other States.

    So I left my weapon in vehicle to avoid issue by then employer.

    (Head of security confirmed never approved vehicle searches and thought the entire employer rule dumb for people like me with training and appropriate, legal CCP for that State.)

    Now as retired non-employee I still go there at times and am allowed to carry everywhere.

    Go figure :)

    People who not carry are not sheep, just unrealistic in expectations of fellow man. Too much media brainwashing.
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  8. #37
    Distinguished Member Array tinkerinWstuff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillArkansas View Post
    People who not carry are not sheep, just unrealistic in expectations of fellow man. Too much media brainwashing.
    That's kinda the definition of sheep. I'm guessing you haven't read the paper on the sheep, wolf, and the sheepdog?
    "Run for your life from the man who tells you that money is evil. That sentence is the leper's bell of an approaching looter. So long as men live together on earth and need means to deal with one another-their only substitute, if they abandon money, is the muzzle of a gun."

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  9. #38
    VIP Member Array Paco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thumper View Post
    I used to work for a large company in the network side of the house and if you are using a company computer for this correspondence I guarantee you that nothing is private! They DO know who you are even if they don't immediately use that information.
    Yup, I am the Network Manager so I have not been using anything corporate for this or for the anonymous question to my company.
    "Don't hit a man if you can possibly avoid it; but if you do hit him, put him to sleep." - Theodore Roosevelt

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  10. #39
    Senior Member Array highvoltage's Avatar
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    On Sheep, Wolves, and Sheepdogs (long)

    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerinWstuff View Post
    That's kinda the definition of sheep. I'm guessing you haven't read the paper on the sheep, wolf, and the sheepdog?
    For those who haven't seen it:

    On Sheep, Wolves, and Sheepdogs - Dave Grossman
    By LTC (RET) Dave Grossman, author of "On Killing."
    Honor never grows old, and honor rejoices the heart of age. It does so because honor is, finally, about defending those noble and worthy things that deserve defending, even if it comes at a high cost. In our time, that may mean social disapproval, public scorn, hardship, persecution, or as always,even death itself. The question remains: What is worth defending? What is worth dying for? What is worth living for? - William J. Bennett - in a lecture to the United States Naval Academy November 24, 1997

    One Vietnam veteran, an old retired colonel, once said this to me:

    "Most of the people in our society are sheep. They are kind, gentle, productive creatures who can only hurt one another by accident." This is true. Remember, the murder rate is six per 100,000 per year, and the aggravated assault rate is four per 1,000 per year. What this means is that the vast majority of Americans are not inclined to hurt one another. Some estimates say that two million Americans are victims of violent crimes every year, a tragic, staggering number, perhaps an all-time record rate of violent crime. But there are almost 300 million Americans, which means that the odds of being a victim of violent crime is considerably less than one in a hundred on any given year. Furthermore, since many violent crimes are committed by repeat offenders, the actual number of violent citizens is considerably less than two million.

    Thus there is a paradox, and we must grasp both ends of the situation: We may well be in the most violent times in history, but violence is still remarkably rare. This is because most citizens are kind, decent people who are not capable of hurting each other, except by accident or under extreme provocation. They are sheep.

    I mean nothing negative by calling them sheep. To me it is like the pretty, blue robin's egg. Inside it is soft and gooey but someday it will grow into something wonderful. But the egg cannot survive without its hard blue shell. Police officers, soldiers, and other warriors are like that shell, and someday the civilization they protect will grow into something wonderful.? For now, though, they need warriors to protect them from the predators.

    "Then there are the wolves," the old war veteran said, "and the wolves feed on the sheep without mercy." Do you believe there are wolves out there who will feed on the flock without mercy? You better believe it. There are evil men in this world and they are capable of evil deeds. The moment you forget that or pretend it is not so, you become a sheep. There is no safety in denial.

    "Then there are sheepdogs," he went on, "and I'm a sheepdog. I live to protect the flock and confront the wolf."

    If you have no capacity for violence then you are a healthy productive citizen, a sheep. If you have a capacity for violence and no empathy for your fellow citizens, then you have defined an aggressive sociopath, a wolf. But what if you have a capacity for violence, and a deep love for your fellow citizens? What do you have then? A sheepdog, a warrior, someone who is walking the hero's path. Someone who can walk into the heart of darkness, into the universal human phobia, and walk out unscathed

    Let me expand on this old soldier's excellent model of the sheep, wolves, and sheepdogs. We know that the sheep live in denial, that is what makes them sheep. They do not want to believe that there is evil in the world. They can accept the fact that fires can happen, which is why they want fire extinguishers, fire sprinklers, fire alarms and fire exits throughout their kids' schools.

    But many of them are outraged at the idea of putting an armed police officer in their kid's school. Our children are thousands of times more likely to be killed or seriously injured by school violence than fire, but the sheep's only response to the possibility of violence is denial. The idea of someone coming to kill or harm their child is just too hard, and so they chose the path of denial.

    The sheep generally do not like the sheepdog. He looks a lot like the wolf. He has fangs and the capacity for violence. The difference, though, is that the sheepdog must not, can not and will not ever harm the sheep. Any sheep dog who intentionally harms the lowliest little lamb will be punished and removed. The world cannot work any other way, at least not in a representative democracy or a republic such as ours.

    Still, the sheepdog disturbs the sheep. He is a constant reminder that there are wolves in the land. They would prefer that he didn't tell them where to go, or give them traffic tickets, or stand at the ready in our airports in camouflage fatigues holding an M-16. The sheep would much rather have the sheepdog cash in his fangs, spray paint himself white, and go, "Baa."

    Until the wolf shows up. Then the entire flock tries desperately to hide behind one lonely sheepdog.

    The students, the victims, at Columbine High School were big, tough high school students, and under ordinary circumstances they would not have had the time of day for a police officer. They were not bad kids; they just had nothing to say to a cop. When the school was under attack, however, and SWAT teams were clearing the rooms and hallways, the officers had to physically peel those clinging, sobbing kids off of them. This is how the little lambs feel about their sheepdog when the wolf is at the door.

    Look at what happened after September 11, 2001 when the wolf pounded hard on the door. Remember how America, more than ever before, felt differently about their law enforcement officers and military personnel? Remember how many times you heard the word hero?

    Understand that there is nothing morally superior about being a sheepdog; it is just what you choose to be. Also understand that a sheepdog is a funny critter: He is always sniffing around out on the perimeter, checking the breeze, barking at things that go bump in the night, and yearning for a righteous battle. That is, the young sheepdogs yearn for a righteous battle. The old sheepdogs are a little older and wiser, but they move to the sound of the guns when needed right along with the young ones.

    Here is how the sheep and the sheepdog think differently. The sheep pretend the wolf will never come, but the sheepdog lives for that day. After the attacks on September 11, 2001, most of the sheep, that is, most citizens in America said, "Thank God I wasn't on one of those planes." The sheepdogs, the warriors, said, "Dear God, I wish I could have been on one of those planes. Maybe I could have made a difference." When you are truly transformed into a warrior and have truly invested yourself into warriorhood, you want to be there. You want to be able to make a difference.

    There is nothing morally superior about the sheepdog, the warrior, but he does have one real advantage. Only one. And that is that he is able to survive and thrive in an environment that destroys 98 percent of the population. There was research conducted a few years ago with individuals convicted of violent crimes. These cons were in prison for serious, predatory crimes of violence: assaults, murders and killing law enforcement officers. The vast majority said that they specifically targeted victims by body language: slumped walk, passive behavior and lack of awareness. They chose their victims like big cats do in Africa, when they select one out of the herd that is least able to protect itself.

    Some people may be destined to be sheep and others might be genetically primed to be wolves or sheepdogs. But I believe that most people can choose which one they want to be, and I'm proud to say that more and more Americans are choosing to become sheepdogs.

    Seven months after the attack on September 11, 2001, Todd Beamer was honored in his hometown of Cranbury, New Jersey. Todd, as you recall, was the man on Flight 93 over Pennsylvania who called on his cell phone to alert an operator from United Airlines about the hijacking. When he learned of the other three passenger planes that had been used as weapons, Todd dropped his phone and uttered the words, "Let's roll," which authorities believe was a signal to the other passengers to confront the terrorist hijackers. In one hour, a transformation occurred among the passengers - athletes, business people and parents. -- from sheep to sheepdogs and together they fought the wolves, ultimately saving an unknown number of lives on the ground.

    There is no safety for honest men except by believing all possible evil of evil men. - Edmund Burke

    Here is the point I like to emphasize, especially to the thousands of police officers and soldiers I speak to each year. In nature the sheep, real sheep, are born as sheep. Sheepdogs are born that way, and so are wolves. They didn't have a choice. But you are not a critter. As a human being, you can be whatever you want to be. It is a conscious, moral decision.

    If you want to be a sheep, then you can be a sheep and that is okay, but you must understand the price you pay. When the wolf comes, you and your loved ones are going to die if there is not a sheepdog there to protect you. If you want to be a wolf, you can be one, but the sheepdogs are going to hunt you down and you will never have rest, safety, trust or love. But if you want to be a sheepdog and walk the warrior's path, then you must make a conscious and moral decision every day to dedicate, equip and prepare yourself to thrive in that toxic, corrosive moment when the wolf comes knocking at the door.

    For example, many officers carry their weapons in church.? They are well concealed in ankle holsters, shoulder holsters or inside-the-belt holsters tucked into the small of their backs.? Anytime you go to some form of religious service, there is a very good chance that a police officer in your congregation is carrying. You will never know if there is such an individual in your place of worship, until the wolf appears to massacre you and your loved ones.

    I was training a group of police officers in Texas, and during the break, one officer asked his friend if he carried his weapon in church. The other cop replied, "I will never be caught without my gun in church." I asked why he felt so strongly about this, and he told me about a cop he knew who was at a church massacre in Ft. Worth, Texas in 1999. In that incident, a mentally deranged individual came into the church and opened fire, gunning down fourteen people. He said that officer believed he could have saved every life that day if he had been carrying his gun. His own son was shot, and all he could do was throw himself on the boy's body and wait to die. That cop looked me in the eye and said, "Do you have any idea how hard it would be to live with yourself after that?"

    Some individuals would be horrified if they knew this police officer was carrying a weapon in church. They might call him paranoid and would probably scorn him. Yet these same individuals would be enraged and would call for "heads to roll" if they found out that the airbags in their cars were defective, or that the fire extinguisher and fire sprinklers in their kids' school did not work. They can accept the fact that fires and traffic accidents can happen and that there must be safeguards against them.

    Their only response to the wolf, though, is denial, and all too often their response to the sheepdog is scorn and disdain. But the sheepdog quietly asks himself, "Do you have and idea how hard it would be to live with yourself if your loved ones attacked and killed, and you had to stand there helplessly because you were unprepared for that day?"

    It is denial that turns people into sheep. Sheep are psychologically destroyed by combat because their only defense is denial, which is counterproductive and destructive, resulting in fear, helplessness and horror when the wolf shows up.

    Denial kills you twice. It kills you once, at your moment of truth when you are not physically prepared: you didn't bring your gun, you didn't train. Your only defense was wishful thinking. Hope is not a strategy. Denial kills you a second time because even if you do physically survive, you are psychologically shattered by your fear helplessness and horror at your moment of truth.

    Gavin de Becker puts it like this in Fear Less, his superb post-9/11 book, which should be required reading for anyone trying to come to terms with our current world situation: "...denial can be seductive, but it has an insidious side effect. For all the peace of mind deniers think they get by saying it isn't so, the fall they take when faced with new violence is all the more unsettling."

    Denial is a save-now-pay-later scheme, a contract written entirely in small print, for in the long run, the denying person knows the truth on some level.

    And so the warrior must strive to confront denial in all aspects of his life, and prepare himself for the day when evil comes. If you are warrior who is legally authorized to carry a weapon and you step outside without that weapon, then you become a sheep, pretending that the bad man will not come today. No one can be "on" 24/7, for a lifetime. Everyone needs down time. But if you are authorized to carry a weapon, and you walk outside without it, just take a deep breath, and say this to yourself...

    "Baa."

    This business of being a sheep or a sheep dog is not a yes-no dichotomy. It is not an all-or-nothing, either-or choice. It is a matter of degrees, a continuum. On one end is an abject, head-in-the-sand-sheep and on the other end is the ultimate warrior. Few people exist completely on one end or the other. Most of us live somewhere in between. Since 9-11 almost everyone in America took a step up that continuum, away from denial. The sheep took a few steps toward accepting and appreciating their warriors, and the warriors started taking their job more seriously. The degree to which you move up that continuum, away from sheephood and denial, is the degree to which you and your loved ones will survive, physically and psychologically at your moment of truth.

  11. #40
    Distinguished Member Array SubNine's Avatar
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    The sad truth is, unless your job requires you to carry a gun (law enforcement, armored transport, armed security), the chances of you being allowed to carry on the job is slim to none. The only ways I see you being allowed to carry are self employment or working for a small business that allows CHL holders to carry on the job.
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  12. #41
    VIP Member Array paramedic70002's Avatar
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    Are you protected from murderous customers by the all powerful Gunbusters sign at the front door?
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!

  13. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by paramedic70002 View Post
    Are you protected from murderous customers by the all powerful Gunbusters sign at the front door?
    The funny part is, we have no signage for our customers, only policies restricting employees.
    "Don't hit a man if you can possibly avoid it; but if you do hit him, put him to sleep." - Theodore Roosevelt

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  14. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by MedPig View Post
    Ask said Company name morons what their policy is, if a terminated employee comes back with a weapon, to settle the score, as commonly happens. Can they GUARANTEE your safety? Do they have a quick-response security unit, capable of handling an active shooter scenario? Are they aware your spouse has instructions to sue for millions if any harm ever befalls you at work? These questions and more should be addressed as to why you deserve less Rights at work than out in the street...

    Good response, especially the part about suing for millions.

  15. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinkerinWstuff View Post
    A company I worked at some years back in MN - They had an insurance company tell them they needed to update their handbook and wrote in language that you couldn't have knives. I worked maintenance and was no longer allowed to carry a leatherman unless I broke off the blade.

    Many of us pitched as much of a stink as we could explaining that we could do more damage with the ballpeen hammer in our toolboxes but they wouldn't listen and didn't seem to care because it was "coming from the insurance company." Even though razor blades and box cutters were o.k.

    This was before MN had CCW. I have no idea how their policy reads now.
    I worked in a large warehouse here in Illinois. We used box cutters all the time. I got tired of hunting for one every day when I came into work, so I put one in my lunch box. Everyday as you came in you went through security and they had you open your lunch box and then "wanded" you. A security guard noticed the box cutter one day and said I shouldn't bring it in. Funny thing is one day at lunch I had a piece of meat in my lunch and complaine to someone sitting next to me in the lunch room that I didn't even have a plastic knife to cut it. He pointed out a drawer in the lunch room cabinet and there was a knife with about an 8" blade or so. No metal detecters for the lunch room either.

    Someone one day joked about the security guards who were unarmed. He said what is he going to do if I come in with an Uzi, radio "employee coming in with an Uzi'? or hit me with his wand?

    There was an incident locally with an armed disgruntled employee coming into a factory and shooting several people, everyone of course was unarmed. This is Illinois one big criminal protection zone.

  16. #45
    Ex Member Array MadMac's Avatar
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    It is really funny where I work in NoVA. The signs are for employees. I have carried into buildings full of government workers and people doing work for the government, and the signs are directed at employees, not visitors.

    That just shows the rules are simply written by coporate lawyers as a CYA policy. If that enraged person comes in shooting, you can't sue because the company "warned" him - no guns or weapons.

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