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I asked the question of my company

4K views 47 replies 27 participants last post by  Paco 
#1 ·
We have an anonymous method of asking the company questions, which are then routed to the appropriate responders. I decided to ask why the company specifically restricts employees from carrying (and specified even if they have a CHL).

I logged in today to get my response, so I have changed the names to protect the sheep, I mean the innocent, and also my response from today.

Your question on June 2, 2009 at 10:41 AM:
I was wondering what the reasoning was for restricting the legal right to carry a concealed firearm by CHL holders is. I would think that with the knowledge of these people having gone through training, FBI background checks, and certification processes that they would be trusted.


On 06/02/2009 at 12:11 PM - Name removed left the message:
Greetings valued employee,

Thanks for using EmployeeVoice to submit your concern in care of carrying a concealed firearm on Company name property.

When considering Company name's commitment to ensuring all employees are operating in a work environment that is safe and non-threatening to others, such policies as the Violence-Free Workplace Policy outlines Company name commitment. It's not to say Company name does not trust employees who have proven themselves responsible and trustworthy by CHL standards, yet, it is the fear and perception that one develops when they see someone (outside of law enforcement) with a weapon - that can be very frightening to the average person, and ccould create a working environment that is threatening and hostile. Think about from this angle - what if you and me got into an argument and I had a concealed weapon on me (and you knew I did), how would you feel? Maybe a bit threatening and put off not knowing what I might do, if pushed to the limits... This is only one example of how allowing employees to bear arms on Company name property could create a hostile and intimidating working environment.

I hope this helps to clarify Company name rationale for not permitting firearms on Company name property.

Very respectfully,
Name Removed

On 06/03/2009 at 11:20 AM - You left the message:
Thank you for your response, I do see your point but and understand how the "masses" can feel towards ignorance of any subject not just those of personal responsibility with weapons.

I simply believe that this policy pointing out firearms and knives (other than those used for work related functions) is baseless considering the fact that in an office environment there are just as many dangerous objects around that can be just as easily employed to cause harm to another.

The example given of "us arguing and me knowing you are armed" doesn't fit the bill either as it implys those who choose to take personal responsibility for their own safety are also somehow unstable enough to use proper judgment in conflict resolution.

Thanks again for your time and prompt response.
I doubt it will make a difference or even make someone think, but I just get tired of the argument that just because someone is legally armed and responsibly safe and trained that they may one day "go off" during an argument. One can do just as much harm with an ink pen or stapler if "pushed to the limits".
 
#2 ·
We have an anonymous method of asking the company questions, which are then routed to the appropriate responders. I decided to ask why the company specifically restricts employees from carrying (and specified even if they have a CHL).

I logged in today to get my response, so I have changed the names to protect the sheep, I mean the innocent, and also my response from today.
Ask said Company name morons what their policy is, if a terminated employee comes back with a weapon, to settle the score, as commonly happens. Can they GUARANTEE your safety? Do they have a quick-response security unit, capable of handling an active shooter scenario? Are they aware your spouse has instructions to sue for millions if any harm ever befalls you at work? These questions and more should be addressed as to why you deserve less Rights at work than out in the street...

:spankme:
 
#8 ·
Ask said Company name morons what their policy is, if a terminated employee comes back with a weapon, to settle the score, as commonly happens. Can they GUARANTEE your safety? Do they have a quick-response security unit, capable of handling an active shooter scenario? Are they aware your spouse has instructions to sue for millions if any harm ever befalls you at work? These questions and more should be addressed as to why you deserve less Rights at work than out in the street...
:spankme:
TinkernWstuff; Paco - I'm surprised you didn't point out that 'concealed is concealed' so how would 'you and me' (crappy grammer btw) know if the other was armed. For that matter, how do they know people aren't armed as we speak??
Definitely do a follow-up with the above info. Great stuff there. I would use it myself but I work at an international airport :mad:
 
#4 ·
Paco - I'm surprised you didn't point out that 'concealed is concealed' so how would 'you and me' (crappy grammer btw) know if the other was armed. For that matter, how do they know people aren't armed as we speak??
 
#6 ·
I didn't want to push it that far, just to be safe. I am complying with the policy, but would be afraid they go to the 3rd party company and tell them to reveal the party who asked the questions for safety reasons. I merely wanted to plant the seed, I knew what the response would be before I submitted the question.

I think you meant to say "...somehow unstable enough to not use proper judgement....."
Heh, oops.
 
#10 ·
A company I worked at some years back in MN - They had an insurance company tell them they needed to update their handbook and wrote in language that you couldn't have knives. I worked maintenance and was no longer allowed to carry a leatherman unless I broke off the blade.

Many of us pitched as much of a stink as we could explaining that we could do more damage with the ballpeen hammer in our toolboxes but they wouldn't listen and didn't seem to care because it was "coming from the insurance company." Even though razor blades and box cutters were o.k.

This was before MN had CCW. I have no idea how their policy reads now.
 
#44 ·
I worked in a large warehouse here in Illinois. We used box cutters all the time. I got tired of hunting for one every day when I came into work, so I put one in my lunch box. Everyday as you came in you went through security and they had you open your lunch box and then "wanded" you. A security guard noticed the box cutter one day and said I shouldn't bring it in. Funny thing is one day at lunch I had a piece of meat in my lunch and complaine to someone sitting next to me in the lunch room that I didn't even have a plastic knife to cut it. He pointed out a drawer in the lunch room cabinet and there was a knife with about an 8" blade or so. No metal detecters for the lunch room either.

Someone one day joked about the security guards who were unarmed. He said what is he going to do if I come in with an Uzi, radio "employee coming in with an Uzi'? or hit me with his wand?

There was an incident locally with an armed disgruntled employee coming into a factory and shooting several people, everyone of course was unarmed. This is Illinois one big criminal protection zone.
 
#15 ·
What happened to ALWAYS CARRY, NEVER TELL?
I carry at work and I haven't said a word. There is no policy against it, so I believe I'm good. The owner is a bit anti, but who cares?
I carry a G30 will 11 rounds of Federal HST +p .45
 
#16 ·
The company handbook at Paco's employer specifically says no CCW or knives. A little different than your situation. Not much room for carry and never tell unless you wish to break policy and lose your job or worse depending on state law.

However, my employer is the same way G45. No handbook or signs so I opt to travel the "easier to get forgiveness than permission" road.

Back to the regular scheduled programming....
 
#19 ·
Several years ago, in the corporate HQ of a well known company, in a very gun unfriendly state back east, a female employee was severely slashed by another employee. Another employee who went to her aid was also slashed.

Prior to the assault, the victim, on more than one occasion, had complained to management about the slasher's remarks to her and his stalking (this was before stalking was a crime) of her, both inside the building & around her residence.

The victim did recover, but with substantial nerve damage in her arms (from defensive wounds). She filed a lawsuit against the company which was of course, settled out-of-court. Rumor has it that she got several million in cash & enough stock to make her one of the top ten largest shareholders of the company.

The slasher escaped & was apprehended months later in another state when he threw a full beer can at a state police vehicle on I-95.
 
#20 ·
it is the fear and perception that one develops when they see someone (outside of law enforcement) with a weapon - that can be very frightening to the average person, and ccould create a working environment that is threatening and hostile. Think about from this angle - what if you and me got into an argument and I had a concealed weapon on me (and you knew I did), how would you feel? Maybe a bit threatening and put off not knowing what I might do, if pushed to the limits... This is only one example of how allowing employees to bear arms on Company name property could create a hostile and intimidating working environment.
So this company person is saying that if someone knows you are armed, they will not push things to the limit with you, because they will be intimidated and fearful - the flip side is that if they do not know you are armed, they feel safe in pushing you to the limit. It seems that the hostile working environment is created by the employee that feels safe when pushing things to the limit. The hostile work environment is not created by the person who carries a gun for self-defense and wishes to avoid conflict.

The other problem with the company position is that they expect some or all of the employees to know who is carrying a concealed weapon, and the company states the position that such knowledge creates a hostile environment. Solution: require licensed gun carriers to keep their carry status from becoming common knowledge, and to ensure that the gun is properly concealed at all times.

Does the company policy forbid employees from telling other employees that they carry a gun when away from work? Does it forbid discussions at break time of firearm related matters (target practice, hunting, etc)? If the entire premise of a hostile work environment is based on the POTENTIAL of some employee being afraid due to perceptions of danger, then all employee conversations concerning weapons of any type and their use, would also have to be prohibited. No hunting stories, no talking about the kids taking self-defense classes after school, no reminiscing about your service in the military and the actions you were involved in. The company by that action creates a hostile and harassing working condition, because they inhibit the normal social interaction of the employees while at the workplace, and the fear of job loss for being discovered in violation of the rules.
 
#21 ·
Impressive commentary One Of
 
#22 ·
Are they also afraid of your Tae Kwon Do skills...?

I know I'd be skeered of getting in an argument with a guy that can kick my teeth out in .8 seconds...

Just sayin'...
 
#23 ·
To begin with how do you know the company cannot determine who left the message? Second did you really expect any different response? Acctually they at least gave a better response than I usually see. Usually it's, "for the safety or our employees and visitors" and that is all.
 
#24 ·
We employ a 3rd party who sends the messages between people, so contractually they can't say who is leaving the messages unless a blatant threat or similar situation is made. That is the main reason I used generalized terms.

I got the answer I expected to get, but was hoping for better.
 
#27 ·
As I recal, Paco is an IT guy complete with pocket protector, er - was it pocket holster? Anyway, so I'm sure he logged in as someone he didn't like in the company.
 
#30 ·
I would ask no more questions, and I would never discuss weapons with ANYONE at work.:scruntiny:
 
#31 ·
Well I am the gun guy at work, they all know it. Most don't care as they own guns themselves and are pro-gun, and we talk about guns etc...

I don't get into concealed carry at work tho, I really don't want to arouse suspicion. They know I carry outside of work, but I leave it at that.
 
#32 ·
Then it probably doesn't matter what you discuss...only if you decided to conceal and not tell.:image035:
 
#35 ·
I used to work for a large company in the network side of the house and if you are using a company computer for this correspondence I guarantee you that nothing is private! They DO know who you are even if they don't immediately use that information. :wink:
 
#36 ·
Always carried other than at former workplace which had strict, immediate loss of job if I found with my weapon. Even in my vehicle.

However, one reason I have CCP is the city I worked at very violent reputation as verified by nationwide stats (Memphis, TN is city). Also have CCP for other States.

So I left my weapon in vehicle to avoid issue by then employer.

(Head of security confirmed never approved vehicle searches and thought the entire employer rule dumb for people like me with training and appropriate, legal CCP for that State.)

Now as retired non-employee I still go there at times and am allowed to carry everywhere.

Go figure :)

People who not carry are not sheep, just unrealistic in expectations of fellow man. Too much media brainwashing.
 
#37 ·
People who not carry are not sheep, just unrealistic in expectations of fellow man. Too much media brainwashing.
That's kinda the definition of sheep. I'm guessing you haven't read the paper on the sheep, wolf, and the sheepdog?
 
#40 ·
The sad truth is, unless your job requires you to carry a gun (law enforcement, armored transport, armed security), the chances of you being allowed to carry on the job is slim to none. The only ways I see you being allowed to carry are self employment or working for a small business that allows CHL holders to carry on the job.
 
#45 ·
It is really funny where I work in NoVA. The signs are for employees. I have carried into buildings full of government workers and people doing work for the government, and the signs are directed at employees, not visitors.

That just shows the rules are simply written by coporate lawyers as a CYA policy. If that enraged person comes in shooting, you can't sue because the company "warned" him - no guns or weapons.
 
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