I need your help
This is a discussion on I need your help within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Before I approached the Chief, I'd prepare my case, do my homework and address it in a business like manner. There are a lot of ...
March 13th, 2006 11:26 AM
Before I approached the Chief, I'd prepare my case, do my homework and address it in a business like manner. There are a lot of good ideas on this above. You ought to know, beforehand:
- Crime levels on campus
- Crime levels in adjoining neighborhoods
- Crime levels where you reside
- The quality of the campus security personnell, training, the coverage at differing times of day
- The quality of campus night lighting
- The predominance of night classes
- The ratio of commuter students versus resident students (e.g. is it a small school in a small "college town" or a big city campus attended predominantly by commuter students at night)
There are probably more, but you should also focus on your specific need, and then build your case.
It'll be a very tough sale - be prepared, be personable, be businesslike, and above all, do not use emotional arguments. They'll fall on deaf ears. Stress your training, your license, your maturity.
You might consider a "bullet" point presentation that all of us would be glad to help you refine and review if you wanted to post it here. Short and sweet.
Good luck, and study hard!
March 13th, 2006 11:26 AM
March 13th, 2006 01:50 PM
When all else fails, tell the truth.
ALWAYS PROTECT YOUR VISION AND HEARING
De gustibus non est disputandem
March 13th, 2006 04:24 PM
The problem with "coming up with something" is that it frequently sounds like you "came up with something". And if you start quoting crime statistics, you shift the debate to crime on campus, risk alienating the Chief by implying that he isn't doing his job, and shift the debate away from your natural right to carry in self-defense. I like the KISS principle, myself. Don't volunteer information he isn't asking for. Don't distract from your central point. Tell the truth. Demonstrate that you are a calm, rational, individual who has passed federal, state and local background checks and have been deemed fit to carry a concealed weapon in public. Good luck.
Originally Posted by cougartxn
March 13th, 2006 06:17 PM
My favorite cartoon quote of all time, from the Wizard of Id, where the King states His version of the "Golden Rule"
He makes the Rules and he pays the Bill's So the Forum owner Bumper gets what he wants .
He with the Gold, Makes the Rules.
Both my kids, now adults, know that one by heart, as well as,
"When Pigs can Fly....."
March 13th, 2006 06:21 PM
Maybe the first thing to do would be to do some background research on the Chief. If he's the kind who says "no" to everybody andis anti-gun, than you risk placing yourself on his radar in a negative way. You might end up on his "first to question if something weird happens on campus" list. Discreetly ask people who know him, try to find out if there are actually people who have gotten waivers, or get to know him yourself if you cross paths once in a while, asking casual questions that poke around the general gun subject. Find out how he feels about guns to get an idea of how he might respond to your inquiry.
There's plenty of reasons to carry, but the hard part is stating reasons that will work on the Chief.
You can go in, stomp your foot down and demand your 2nd Amendment rights be honored, and very well come across as "one of those militia types." It's my opinion you should leave out the "it's my right" type comments. I would suggest you state, as Tom357 said, that you've passed all the federal, state and local background checks to carry in public.
As a couple others said, don't say anything to suggest that the campus police are unable to do their jobs - you'll just offend him. Get it across that you respect his job and the campus police, but state that the ratio of cops/students means the cops just can't be there for everyone, any maybe you've got really late classes and cross dark lawns and lots.
"Americans have the will to resist because you have weapons. If you don't have a gun, freedom of speech has no power." - Yoshimi Ishikawa
March 13th, 2006 06:54 PM
It should come as no surprise that the ONLY police organization that is consistently anti-RKBA is the International Association of Chiefs of Police.
Chiefs generally serve at the discretion of the politician in charge, and only get to keep their job as long as they serve HIS (or her) personal agenda.
If the situation on your campus is similar, then the Chief holds his job only as long as he keeps the University President happy. If the UP doesn't want him granting waivers, then he won't grant them, regardless of his own personal beliefs or however good your arguments are.
Sorry to be a wet blanket.
Life Member - American Society of Armed Political Malcontents
Question Authority. Hang As Necessary!
In God I Trust. Everybody Else Keep Your Hands Where I Can See Them!
March 13th, 2006 07:01 PM
One thing I'd suggest (and have used successfully in dealing with school superintendents here) is that (a) you carry regularly as part of your job (if true) and/or (b) if you cannot carry on campus, you'll be leaving an unattended weapon locked in your car and it's safer on your person as a licensed carrier. ;0
Driver carries less than $45 worth of remorse.
March 13th, 2006 07:09 PM
I agree with the comments that you should not use "campus crime statistics" as a reason for CC when discussing this matter with the Chief as it would probably been taken as a personal affront.
However, an understanding of the statistics on campus and in the surrounding areas as well as where you live might help you build a more persuasive case. For example, if you live or work in a dangerous high crime neighborhood, or travel through one to and from classes, at night, that might be a compelling piece of a well-built presentation.
I think you should do some research, and then build your case, so to speak. There are a lot of high quality ideas in many of the previous posts. Keep us posted on your progress.
March 13th, 2006 08:43 PM
You might also point out to the chief that by denying you, a licensed CCW holder, the right to carry the means of self protection, both he and the school assume the responsibility to protect you. Should they fail in this responsibility, they may very well find themselves sued for that failure. I know I, or my surviving family members, would sue anyplace which deprived me of my right to carry and then failed to protect me in the event of a crime.
Originally Posted by cougartxn
March 15th, 2006 12:07 AM
I have done something I rarely do (and I really didn't have the time in the first place) and scrubbed this post of the offensive post and all posts that had references to it. For all our members that lost a post, I apologize, but it was the quickest way to accomplish the task.
A member posted an honest and worthy question and most have tried to give him feedback without a lot of BS. THAT is what we are about, and I appreciate all of our members that like it here because we don't allow all the useless, and quite frankly, ******** posts to take over here. For those that are inclined to break the forum rules, let this serve as a warning. I'm not doing this again. Those members that purposely break the forum rules or attack our other members won't be members for long. If you really don't like the way things are done here, just leave (or PM me and I will swiftly show you the door.)
We now return to our regularly scheduled program.
Coimhéad fearg fhear na foighde; Beware the anger of a patient man.
March 15th, 2006 12:18 AM
I think that relying on your having passed the requirements and having a Concealed Weapons permit, along with any other positive statements, as offered in several of the above post, would be the way to go.
I really don't think it would be wise to use the "if you disarm me, you take full responsibility for whatever happens to me" argument in this particular case. It would more than likely put him on the defensive.
I do understand and appreciate the principle behind such an argument, but feel that one should be used to sway our legislators.
For the purpose of obtaining permission to carry on campus, I'd avoid any of the negative arguments, or anything that would put you at odds with the man making the decision.
Political Correctness has now "evolved" into Political Cowardice.
March 15th, 2006 01:03 AM
Unless you have connections, or have had death threats in the past, it's ultimately going to come down to what kind of man he is. If he respects basic human rights, he will support your CCW permit simply because it's the right thing to do. If he's an elitist, nothing you say will convince him. That's the bottom line, unfortunately. My advice is to submit your case respectfully but frankly, without trying to work an angle or make up reasons. Keep it simple. Tell him "I have a CCW permit, I have a clean record, and I wish to exercise my rights on campus as I have been doing off campus for x years now." Best of luck.
“Freedom is the sure possession of those alone who have the courage to defend it.” ~Pericles of Athens
Primary Carry - Colt Commander .45 in a Brommeland Max-Con V