Can they search you?

This is a discussion on Can they search you? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I was just listening to Glenn Beck and a woman called up and said that her husband (who has a permit) walking in to a ...

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Thread: Can they search you?

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array fernset's Avatar
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    Can they search you?

    I was just listening to Glenn Beck and a woman called up and said that her husband (who has a permit) walking in to a theater in Virginia to watch Glenn's show, I think she said it was "the coloseum" was asked to lift his shirt to show he had no gun.

    From my understanding open carry is legal in virginia so can you be searched on private property.

    What about here in Florida. I know we can go into private property and carry but if asked to leave we have to, but do we have to let an owner search us if they think we're carrying.

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  3. #2
    VIP Member Array Blackeagle's Avatar
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    If they ask to search you, you can always leave rather than submit to the search. However, they can insist on searching you before allowing you entry. They can't force you to submit to the search, but you can't force them to let you in.

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    New Member Array Werewolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackeagle View Post
    If they ask to search you, you can always leave rather than submit to the search. However, they can insist on searching you before allowing you entry. They can't force you to submit to the search, but you can't force them to let you in.
    The same applies in Oklahoma. The issue is one of the rights of private property owners to control who/what enters their property vs the the right of citizens to defend themselves using the most effective means available to them.

    Current legal precedent at the federal level and I imagine it's the same in most states favors the rights of the property owner over those of the citizen.

    Rational arguments can be made by both sides. Even after years of carrying I still haven't settled on one or the other which is why currently my rule is concealed means concealed. If a search is a requirement of entry to a place and they're searching for weapons I just don't go in. Served me well for many years.

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    Member Array fogish's Avatar
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    +1 Werewolf

    No idea on your states laws, might want to look them up. Most states it is something roughly like the owner of private property can make you leave anytime they want for any or no reason. Here is Utah law, from the FAQ on their own site: "Naturally, private property owners may apply what ever restrictions they want, whether or not these restrictions violates ones personal rights is for the civil courts to decide. But the only statutory restriction on a permit holder is Secured areas such as airports and federal buildings." They now have restricted access to churches as well but the churches have to register for a list, putting a sign up means nothing.

    So a private property owner can still have any restrictions they want for people entering or staying on their property but the state is staying out of whether or not that applies to the second ammendment and people with a CCL. Just like I now have to read Washington's state law multiple times to understand when I will be breaking the law when I CC you should do the same with Virginia's and any other state you visit.
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    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    Actually I think there was a case in Tampa involving someone at a Buccaneers game. I believe the court said if you don't like it, don't buy the ticket.
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    Member Array fireman836's Avatar
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    The Richmond Coliseum is not private property it is owned by the city of Richmond. Due to the state preemption law they cannot exclude the legal carry of guns. Therefore the search is a ploy by the management company to intimidate law abiding citizens. At a recent Glen Beck show they tried to prevent people from wearing Guns Save Lives stickers into the show. Claiming stickers were listed as a prohibited item on their web site. Research proved stickers were added after the incident in a CYA bid not realizing that Goggle had a cached copy of their web page.
    I carry a bible and a gun. Your Point?

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  8. #7
    Ex Member Array Oldskoolfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fireman836 View Post
    The Richmond Coliseum is not private property it is owned by the city of Richmond. Due to the state preemption law they cannot exclude the legal carry of guns. Therefore the search is a ploy by the management company to intimidate law abiding citizens. At a recent Glen Beck show they tried to prevent people from wearing Guns Save Lives stickers into the show. Claiming stickers were listed as a prohibited item on their web site. Research proved stickers were added after the incident in a CYA bid not realizing that Goggle had a cached copy of their web page.
    It might be that the producers and people who rent the coliseum decide the rules when it is rented. This was probably a private event meaning that tickets would have to be purchased.


    Either way the rights of the property owner are absolute and more important then the second amendment when it comes to being on their private property. Your second amendment rights do not apply on the property of others if they don't wish them to. You are free to leave the property and to exercise your second amendment rights on other property.

  9. #8
    Senior Member Array InspectorGadget's Avatar
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    Here is what VCDL posted about the Richmond Event that night. It sounds like open and concealed were allowed just nor the stickers.

    VA-ALERT: Richmond Coliseum Bans VCDL Stickers! - The Sentinel

    Last night talk show host Glenn Beck was at the Richmond Coliseum. Many VCDL members were in attendance. (Dennis O'Connor, Bruce Jackson, and I were at the VCDL picnic and couldn't attend.)

    The good news is that there were NO problems with law-abiding gun owners carrying their handguns to the show. Handguns were carried concealed and openly.

    VCDL members Dale Welch and Paul Henick handed out **851** VCDL "Guns Save Lives" stickers outside the Coliseum and sent me detailed reports of what followed.
    Paul's report:

    While we were not actually mobbed by people wanting stickers, they were hunting us down and looking for the stickers. When you see someone from about 20 yards out zeroing in on you with a determined look in their eyes, it is wonderful to see they are smiling at you. From about 6:30 PM till maybe 7:40 PM we could not give out stickers fast enough.

    The RPD presence consisted of about 3 officers each on the 5th & 7th Street sides, and maybe another 3 or 4 inside the front entrance area. I could not see if there were any others inside or at the Leigh Street side. There were no fleets of squadcars and motorcycles like at the RPV Convention. I got a few pictures before my camera batteries went dead on me.

    The fun actually started about 6:45 PM when a few folks in white shirts from SMG Inc. came out and tried to tell me I could not pass out stickers. After asking if they were saying I could not exercise my First Amendment right to political speech on public property, and getting them to stop trying to tell me the Coliseum was "private property" and the public park was "over there past the steps," they tried the tactic of telling me I could not pass out stickers because the people might bring them inside, take them off, and leave them on the seats or floor or walls. These white-shirted individuals, along with some SMG Inc. folks in blue polos, would not answer me when I asked if they were going to hold me responsible for what other people did with the stickers. The final attempt on their part was to say I could not pass out stickers because the stickers would not be allowed inside the Coliseum. I asked if they were saying I was bringing stickers inside the Coliseum, but they refused to answer and brought the Richmond Police Dept. into the conversation.

    The cops told me that the "Coliseum people" did not want me passing out stickers. I asked if I was being told to leave public property, and if so under what authority I was being told to leave. That got the cops all confused, so they repeated that the "Coliseum people" did not want stickers passed out. I asked the cops (a female corporal with a rocker and a male patrolman) if they were telling me I could not exercise my First Amendment right to political speech on public property. The response was that they really did not know what the law was but that the "Coliseum people" did not want stickers passed out. We went round and round till a Captain was called over, who after getting nowhere with me suggested that I pass out stickers with the backing still on. I told the Captain that I feared I might then be accused of littering if the people who took the stickers dropped the backing paper on the ground, just as I was told by SMG Inc. folks I was considered responsible if people went inside with stickers and then took them off and stuck them to the seats or floors or walls.

    The Richmond Police contingent (Captain, corporal, patrolman) seemed to give up at about that point as I was not going to let them direct the conversation and they seemed fresh out of ideas of how to get me to stop passing out stickers.

    One of the blue polo shirts from SMG Inc. then came over and asked if he could talk with me "over there [some distance from the crowd]." When I asked him if there was something that prevented him from talking with me "over here [where I was passing out stickers]" he threw up his hands and walked away.

    While all this was going on Dale & Diane were passing out stickers like gangbusters.

    Dale got a chance to see some of the SMG Inc. and Coliseum staff searching purses for contraband, He also talked with some of the Coliseum staff that we had met last weekend at the RPV Convention. It seems that as long as they did not have to deal with me they were fine talking with Dale. If only they knew the Mutt & Jeff routine being played on them!

    SMG Inc. did force people to take off the stickers and put them in a trash can before they entered. Even from where I was outside the entrance I could hear folks telling the SMG Inc. employees what they thought of the rule, and a few asking where it was posted that people could not come in wearing stickers, or why stickers were being disallowed wholesale instead of dealing with the few who might litter.

    In spite of the short time folks were allowed to keep their stickers on, it seems that the expense of printing up the stickers was well worth it. People had heard us talking with the SMG Inc. employees and RPD about the Coliseum being public property, and some seemed downright upset at the pettiness of the no-sticker rule. Others carried that past the no-sticker issue to petty tyranny of public officials in general. (It's great when PO'd people cluster at the entrance and talk in loud voices before actually going inside!)
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  10. #9
    VIP Member Array tns0038's Avatar
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    Pocket carry is the answer

    Concerts and other such civic event try that stuff all the time.

    That’s why when I’m headed there I leave my Glock 26 at home and pockets carry the little Kel-Tek P3AT 380. They never ask nothing, when you walk in with shorts, and your shirt tucked in.

  11. #10
    Member Array Loadedtech's Avatar
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    I read the VCDL report, and the coliseum staff were in the wrong here. They were whining about stickers???
    CHP holder. EDC G27. I support VCDL, so glad to have them fighting for my rights.

  12. #11
    Member Array LawyerDagget's Avatar
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    I think I'm missing something too...the problem was over wearing stickers on your shirt? How can they possibly prohibit that?


  13. #12
    Senior Member Array digitalexplr's Avatar
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    So will there be any legal action against the SMG folks in order to set a precedent for other such gatherings, only Internet postings that essentially mean nothing and cost the violators of rights nothing?
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  14. #13
    Member Array fireman836's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldskoolfan View Post
    It might be that the producers and people who rent the coliseum decide the rules when it is rented. This was probably a private event meaning that tickets would have to be purchased.


    Either way the rights of the property owner are absolute and more important then the second amendment when it comes to being on their private property. Your second amendment rights do not apply on the property of others if they don't wish them to. You are free to leave the property and to exercise your second amendment rights on other property.
    On private property the property owner rules. My house my rules! The Richmond Coliseum is public property and state preemption rules. It was not the show promoter it is the management company hired by the city to operate the coliseum for them that is trying to circumvent the law.
    I carry a bible and a gun. Your Point?

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    New Member Array wickedrider's Avatar
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    I read all of the posts and I have a question. I know that I am an idiot but...What is an RPV convention? What does RPV stand for.

  16. #15
    Ex Member Array Oldskoolfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fireman836 View Post
    On private property the property owner rules. My house my rules! The Richmond Coliseum is public property and state preemption rules. It was not the show promoter it is the management company hired by the city to operate the coliseum for them that is trying to circumvent the law.
    Ah, I was under the impression that the renter had enforced this. My mistake.

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