Has the term "reciprocity" lost its meaning?

This is a discussion on Has the term "reciprocity" lost its meaning? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I was perusing Handgunlaw.us to see what the reciprocity maps look like for Texas. Great to see that just about all of the southern half ...

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Thread: Has the term "reciprocity" lost its meaning?

  1. #1
    Member Array brianko's Avatar
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    Has the term "reciprocity" lost its meaning?

    I was perusing Handgunlaw.us to see what the reciprocity maps look like for Texas. Great to see that just about all of the southern half of the US is now covered by my permit!

    However, I noticed a disturbing trend: Texas recognizes some states' permits even though they don't extend the same courtesy to Texans. For instance: NE, NY, HI.

    What could possibly have been going through Gov. Perry's head with these unilateral agreements? How is such an agreement of benefit to Texans?
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    Member Array NC Buckeye's Avatar
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    This would make sense!

    Each state typically recognizes states whose requirements are as or more stringent than their own. For example NY's is fairly difficult to obtain, Texas's is not.

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    No, reciprocity still means the same thing. If it's a one side arrangement, it's not reciprocity. There are more than a few states that honor ALL state's permits regardless if the other state recognizes theirs. MI, TN, IN etc. honor the Iowa permit, however Iowa recognizes NO other state's permits.
    How is such an agreement of benefit to Texans?
    It's not, but it is a benefit to those visiting TX from another state without having to worry about a Non-res permit. etc.

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    Member Array NativH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NC Buckeye View Post
    This would make sense!

    Each state typically recognizes states whose requirements are as or more stringent than their own. For example NY's is fairly difficult to obtain, Texas's is not.
    From what I've seen, the Texas license is harder to get than a couple of other states. We must at least take a shooting test and some states don't even require that. An easy shooting test for sure but at least you have to be able to take range directions and hit the target.
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    Distinguished Member Array ErnieNWillis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NativH View Post
    From what I've seen, the Texas license is harder to get than a couple of other states. We must at least take a shooting test and some states don't even require that. An easy shooting test for sure but at least you have to be able to take range directions and hit the target.


    Not to mention the fact that it is taking 120 days to get your plastic. Some states issue in as little time as a few days.

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    Member Array doctruptwn's Avatar
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    It also is a situation of your states AG or whoever, contacting the state in question and asking them to honor the Tx CCL.

    As for Nebraska. Look for that to change around the 1st of August. They just passed new legislation that will allow Ne. to accept other states with equal or greater training requirements.
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    Member Array fatcat's Avatar
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    What would make sense, is that a state with tougher laws should get a free carry pass in states with easier laws.

    For instance, if you have a NY, or CA pistol permit, you should be able to carry anywhere in the country. Both require FBI background checks, prints, interviews etc..... so by that measure if you can get one in NY or CA you can get one anywhere. So reciprocity should work in that way.

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    Senior Member Array Tom357's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatcat View Post
    What would make sense, is that a state with tougher laws should get a free carry pass in states with easier laws.

    For instance, if you have a NY, or CA pistol permit, you should be able to carry anywhere in the country. Both require FBI background checks, prints, interviews etc..... so by that measure if you can get one in NY or CA you can get one anywhere. So reciprocity should work in that way.
    Um, no. You are confusing reciprocity and recognition. It might make sense for less restrictive states to recognize more restrictive states, but reciprocity would require each state to recognize the other.

    The handgunlaw reciprocity map uses color coding to distinguish between reciprocity agreements and unilateral recognition. I don't think reciprocity has lost its meaning. I do wonder why it takes so long for states to work out reciprocity agreements, though. It seems pretty straightforward, to me. Just do it.
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    How is such an agreement of benefit to Texans?
    It may not be a benefit to Texans, but I would submit that it is a benefit to many non-Texans who carry. And that's really the crux of the matter, in my not so humble opinion.
    "Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups"

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    VIP Member Array MitchellCT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brianko View Post
    What could possibly have been going through Gov. Perry's head with these unilateral agreements? How is such an agreement of benefit to Texans?
    Tourism.

    If I get some vacation time and have the $$, I have no reservations about heading down to TX and spending some money on useless junk I don't need and T-Shirts I won't ever wear again.

    I could go on a vinyard tour of CA...but as I can't carry when I'm in that state...nah.

    What benifit...the most tangible kind. Money in the pockets of it's citizens...

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    Member Array gunshrink's Avatar
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    Recognition

    The states you mention if the powers that be had their choice would not even recognize their own permit. Heck Hawaii is even trying to get pocket knives banned. In NY City a place that has a higher populatoin that many states there are only about 2,000 permit holders (a number of which I doubt even that many).
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    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    This actually ties directly in with another thread that sort of started to wander in another part of the forum. One member has posted their belief that agreements between states such as reciprocity agreements are subject to approval by congress under Article I section 10 of the Consititution.
    By making unilateral declarations of acceptance of another states permit as Governor Perry does, it renders Article I section 10 and congress completely irrelevant to the situation.
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    VIP Member Array Majorlk's Avatar
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    Connecticut permits are relatively easy to get (depending upon the personal feelings of the local PD Chief) and generally takes 30-45 days or so - mine took three weeks. NRA Basic Pistol Course, Fingerprints, FBI background check, demonstration of proficiency, etc., are required.

    That said, Connecticut permits are honored by 12 states but Connecticut honors NONE.

    According to one source I spoke to this morning, Connecticut issued over 900 last month.

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    Distinguished Member Array Reborn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ErnieNWillis View Post
    Not to mention the fact that it is taking 120 days to get your plastic. Some states issue in as little time as a few days.
    I saw in yesterdays paper exactly what you just said, 16 weeks because so many are applying.......thanks to the new president.
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    Member Array Magnum Mikie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by speak2u View Post
    The states you mention if the powers that be had their choice would not even recognize their own permit. Heck Hawaii is even trying to get pocket knives banned. In NY City a place that has a higher populatoin that many states there are only about 2,000 permit holders (a number of which I doubt even that many).
    Hello fellow Minnesotan,
    Kinda makes ya wonder! If there are only about 2000 permit holders, I wonder how many are carrying without permits.
    Last edited by Magnum Mikie; June 15th, 2009 at 04:46 PM. Reason: Add some stuff

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