Anti's "escalation" argument???

Anti's "escalation" argument???

This is a discussion on Anti's "escalation" argument??? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I just received my VA CHP on Monday and I'll be back in the states from Chile to sign it soon...with one small problem. Somehow ...

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Thread: Anti's "escalation" argument???

  1. #1
    Member Array Agent47's Avatar
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    Anti's "escalation" argument???

    I just received my VA CHP on Monday and I'll be back in the states from Chile to sign it soon...with one small problem.

    Somehow word got out that I would be getting a CHP - apparently I wasn't alone when I told this to one of my close friends, and now everyone thinks I'm some sort of psychopath even though I've done nothing wrong.

    Yes, I'm pretty sure we've been through all that before, one thing that keeps coming back to me is my friends(in question, or soon to be ex-friends...) saying that I'd escalate the situation if I drew a gun - I countered that by saying, what if a cop was in my place. They said "the cops have more authority than you do" - as if that really made any sense...other things kept coming up like "what if you miss" or "what if he doesn't go down and both of you get shot?" I kept repeating that training would help out, and they still keep thinking that all criminals would probably just run off with your stuff once you've given it to them, or criminals would drop their gun and surrender when confronted by an LEO...like that has happened consistently before.

    Any thoughts or ideas?


  2. #2
    VIP Member Array MitchellCT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent47 View Post
    Any thoughts or ideas?
    Get more and better training in firearms usage and take a self defense and the law class.

    Also, stop arguing with people who are anti-gun. Its annoying for you, useless for them.

    You will do more by example than by argument anyway, so be the most level headed, calm person they ever met, while having the ability to law waste to everything in sight.

    They will either get it or they won't. If they do - great. If they don't - they make excellent distractions, and when the zombies come you can 'leg' them and run away.

  3. #3
    VIP Member Array grady's Avatar
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    Short answer because I'm short of time:

    If someone is a threat to me or my family, I INTEND to escalate the situation in order to increase our chances of survival. I don't intend to trust in the bad guy's mercy as to whether we survive or not, or whether we survive uninjured or not. Too many examples of when someone didn't resist but were hurt or killed anyway.

    As far as a cop having more authority than me... when it comes to my life or the lives of my family, I have as much or more authority than anyone to protect them.

    As far as "what if he doesn't go down and you both get shot?" That's better than me being the only one shot and the criminal being free to do whatever he chooses to my family. I'll roll those dice.

    Bottom line is your anti friends probably won't accept any answer you give, so I would end it with "it's my right, and I intend to utilize that right. If you choose not to, that's fine, but I choose to do what I can to protect myself and family, and I'll do it regardless of how others feel about it."

    Something along those lines. You can try and reason with them, but don't expect them to see your logic. Don't let their feeble arguments sway you.

  4. #4
    VIP Member Array shooterX's Avatar
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    I have faced some of the same comments, it is difficult to change the point of view of sheep, they just don't understand, and may never.

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    VIP Member Array NC Bullseye's Avatar
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    It's like the old saying "Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and it annoys the pig". You probably won't sway their stance on concealed carry so your best bet is to avoid the subject, do what you know is right, and don't ever doubt that you're doing the right thing.

    The "everyone thinks I'm some sort of psychopath" thing is a lot like when you first start carrying and you think that you are printing all the time. After awhile, you realize that no one really notices that faint bulge and they don't even remember the thing about some gun thing.

    Relax, practice, and enjoy!

  6. #6
    VIP Member Array Kerbouchard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent47 View Post
    Any thoughts or ideas?
    Find new friends...and next time keep your personal matters personal.
    There are two sides to every issue: one side is right and the other is wrong, but the middle is always evil.

    http://miscmusings.townhall.com/

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    Senior Member Array Rob P.'s Avatar
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    Get new friends.

    Seriously, your current friends are mentally defective because their arguments have no rational basis in fact or fear.

    "What if you miss?" as an argument? C'mon, get real. What if you get killed in a hostile take-over robbery? What if you have a car accident? What if your neighbor decides to off himself and misses? What if you have a heart attack? What if, what if, what if. . . the list can go on to infinity.

    IF ANY of my friends were to even mention to someone else that they thought I was "dangerous" because I carry a firearm I'd send them on their way with a stern THANK YOU FOR TELLING MY SECRETS TO STRANGERS NOW PLEASE LEAVE AND NEVER COME BACK!

    And I would NEVER associate with them again.

  8. #8
    Member Array Agent47's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerbouchard View Post
    Find new friends...and next time keep your personal matters personal.
    Easier said then done until you realize that you will be stuck with them during medical school in Richmond...I will NOT compromise my principles in any such way, it's just so hard at times when you realize almost ALL your friends turned out to be the fairweather...[removed]

    All I'm looking for is something to put them at ease, I don't think I'll ever convince them, I'm just trying to manage damage control, that's all. Mitchell does bring up an excellent point though, I'll have to work on it because I've been told if I look calm, I look like I'm about to pounce on somebody even if I'm not even thinking about it...
    Last edited by JD; June 18th, 2009 at 05:27 PM.

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    Member Array llongshot's Avatar
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    You might collect some articles depicting crimes where the victim was murdered just so he/she couldn't identify the perpetrator. It's also not a good thing not to be able to cough up some loot due to the fact that it aggravates the perp to the point that he/she might just shoot you because he/she thinks your holding out or just from pure frustration. The breaking point for most of the weaker sex is the "and what if he decides he wants sex during or after the robbery" discussion. And what if he doesn't want to face a rape charge later? I bet you can guess how he would decide to deal with that. And, even if you survive the initial event having been through the situation would most likely leave you so mentally traumatized that you'd never be the same. If these people are concerned about you [someone they know and probably trust] having a firearm on your person ask them just how concerned they're going to be when looking down the bussiness end of a firearm in the hand of someone in a drug induced paranoid delusion caused by withdrawal. That person would kill you without considering any of the things a sane person would.

  10. #10
    Member Array One of Many's Avatar
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    You have just greatly increased the danger to yourself, if you continue to associate with these rabid anti-self-defense idiots. If they are with you and a criminal accosts you, they will immediately disclose to the criminal that you are armed and dangerous, resulting in you being targeted before you have a chance to deploy your own defensive weapon. In normal circumstances you would likely have an opportunity to stealthily deploy your own gun and prepare to defend yourself. That will not happen when one of these idiots blurts out "you have a gun, do something".

    Either quit associating with them, or convince them that you are disarmed when they are around, because you respect their need to be defenseless. That way, they will not expect you to defend them, and you have the advantage of surprise when you do do.

  11. #11
    Member Array glockstock's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent47 View Post
    Easier said then done until you realize that you will be stuck with them during medical school in Richmond...
    I am also in med school down here in TX, and have come to realize the same issues when disclosing that I simply own a firearm. I find that sitting them down and explaining that I only intend to use it in a defensive life-saving opportunity begins a pretty good discussion. Recognize that others are entitled to their opinions and many will have nothing to do with firearms--but that taking your safety in your own hands will ultimately leave you standing in the long run

    Best thing you can do to avoid further problems is to simply keep it to yourself, and be very calm if problems arise. You are free to exercise your rights, even if they are waived by others in your anatomy lab.
    Last edited by Captain Crunch; June 19th, 2009 at 01:29 AM. Reason: Fixed quote tags.
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  12. #12
    Member Array Agent47's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockstock View Post
    I am also in med school down here in TX, and have come to realize the same issues when disclosing that I simply own a firearm. I find that sitting them down and explaining that I only intend to use it in a defensive life-saving opportunity begins a pretty good discussion. Recognize that others are entitled to their opinions and many will have nothing to do with firearms--but that taking your safety in your own hands will ultimately leave you standing in the long run

    Best thing you can do to avoid further problems is to simply keep it to yourself, and be very calm if problems arise. You are free to exercise your rights, even if they are waived by others in your anatomy lab.
    Well, I hope I'm as lucky as you, because all of my friends tend to hold some significant sway over others - being part of VCU's accelerated program for MCV tends to swell some people's heads and make the sheep follow them where-ever they go and do as they say...

    I don't want to lose any of them, we've all stuck together and helped each other out during undergrad, and I'm grateful to them (and they are to me) for helping them with tough courses.

    Oh well, time to pull the old Houdini sleight of hand trick...
    Last edited by Captain Crunch; June 19th, 2009 at 01:32 AM. Reason: Fixed quote tags.

  13. #13
    VIP Member Array MitchellCT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agent47 View Post
    Easier said then done until you realize that you will be stuck with them during medical school in Richmond...I will NOT compromise my principles in any such way, it's just so hard at times when you realize almost ALL your friends turned out to be the fairweather *******...

    All I'm looking for is something to put them at ease, I don't think I'll ever convince them, I'm just trying to manage damage control, that's all. Mitchell does bring up an excellent point though, I'll have to work on it because I've been told if I look calm, I look like I'm about to pounce on somebody even if I'm not even thinking about it...
    I had the same problem in law school.

    Do what I would have been better advised to do - Don't make it a big thing. Concentrate on your studies, and become the guy who can throw a mean party.

    Do a black tie, exotic beer night. You know, beers that come in corked bottles which were aged in whiskey casks...(its less costly than you think) and serve some home made (sore bought dough/crust, sauce out of a bottle, cheese out of a plastic bag...) pizza.

    When someone shows up with a 6 pack of bud, look at them like "Their is no helping you. Sit in the corner and don't say anything stupid..." and say "Eh...no. We are drinking BEER. Not canned water..."

    Stop talking about firearms with people, and buy a better concealment holster.

    Problem solved.


    Show people their is more to you than a serial killer in training...and people will stop thinking of you in that way.

    Or at least, they will say "He may be nutts...but man, that guy can cook...and the beer! I didn't even know they made belgain style ale aged in bourbon casks...I didn't know you weren't supposed to serve all beer ice cold..."




    If my plan gets you "some" and distracts people, I want scripts for good stuff...

  14. #14
    VIP Member Array Kerbouchard's Avatar
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    I guess you could go with one of my favorite quotes:

    "It is only as retaliation that force may be used and only against the man who starts its use. No, I do not share his evil or sink to his concept of morality: I merely grant him his choice, destruction, the only destruction he had a right to choose: his own."
    - John Galt, from Atlas Shrugged
    There are two sides to every issue: one side is right and the other is wrong, but the middle is always evil.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MitchellCT View Post
    Get more and better training in firearms usage and take a self defense and the law class.

    Also, stop arguing with people who are anti-gun. Its annoying for you, useless for them.

    You will do more by example than by argument anyway, so be the most level headed, calm person they ever met, while having the ability to law waste to everything in sight.

    They will either get it or they won't. If they do - great. If they don't - they make excellent distractions, and when the zombies come you can 'leg' them and run away.
    Great point...
    Heed this advice.
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