Page 1 of the Virginia section of the Sunday Roanoke Times

Page 1 of the Virginia section of the Sunday Roanoke Times

This is a discussion on Page 1 of the Virginia section of the Sunday Roanoke Times within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Get ready for guns in bars - Roanoke.com Get ready for guns in bars By Dan Casey It's far too early to take a reasonable ...

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  1. #1
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    Thumbs down Page 1 of the Virginia section of the Sunday Roanoke Times

    Get ready for guns in bars - Roanoke.com

    Get ready for guns in bars
    By Dan Casey

    It's far too early to take a reasonable guess at who will prevail in November's likely gubernatorial slugfest between state Sen. Creigh Deeds and former Attorney General Bob McDonnell.

    But one probable victor is the frightening guns-in-bars legislation that has passed the Virginia House and Senate for the past two years and was sensibly vetoed each time by Gov. Tim Kaine.

    Both Deeds, a Bath County Democrat who voted for the bill, and McDonnell, a Henrico County Republican, are on the record in favor of allowing concealed weapons in bars, by permit holders, provided those handgun hiders do not drink alcohol.

    To McDonnell, it's a constitutional issue. If elected, he would sign it into law.

    "Concealed carry permit holders have to pass rigorous background checks prior to gaining a permit. These are law-abiding individuals exercising their Second Amendment right to bear arms," says Tucker Martin, a McDonnell campaign spokesman.

    Deeds stands by his vote earlier this year. If elected, he would sign the bill Kaine vetoed, his campaign said.

    "Creigh Deeds supports the Second Amendment and Virginia's current laws, but believes that guns and alcohol don't mix," Deeds spokesman Jared Leopold says. "In the state Senate, Creigh Deeds voted to prevent individuals carrying concealed weapons from drinking alcohol."

    That sounds like a fancy way around the fact that the senator voted to remove the current prohibition on concealed weapons in bars.

    I don't quite understand why anyone would want to carry a concealed weapon into a bar. Open carry/no drinking already is allowed, though restaurateurs often ask those people to leave. (Maybe that's why gun owners want to hide them.)

    Larry Pratt, president of the Northern Virginia-based Gun Owners of America, says it's because of the "element of surprise."

    "When you're carrying concealed, you retain the element of surprise much more than if you're carrying openly," Pratt told me. And that would give you an edge over any attacker, he added.

    It's precisely that prospect that frightens the dickens out of two well-known and experienced Roanoke-area barkeeps.

    One is Mike Flanary, co-owner of The Cornerstone Bar & Grill on the city market and Flanary's Irish Pub on Jefferson Street downtown. He considers himself a liberal.

    The other is Chip Moore, owner of the Brambleton Deli and Annie Moore's Irish Pub, both in Southwest Roanoke County. He calls himself a conservative.

    "Can you tell me one good thing that could happen from someone who carried a concealed weapon into a bar? I can't think of one good thing," Flanary told me. "The fact that they would allow it is mind-boggling."

    Moore asked, "What are they trying to accomplish by having people with concealed weapons in bars? ... I'm not for stricter guns laws -- but I'm not crazy, either."

    Each raised interesting points on the so-far-failed legislation's fine print:

    Absent airport-style metal detectors at bars, the proviso that pistol-hiding diners not drink is laughably unenforceable.
    Bad judgment and alcohol already are regular companions without guns in the mix. "That upstanding person who has the concealed carry permit is not the same person after 10 beers," Moore observed.
    Patrons who are too frightened to enter an establishment without a concealed gun might be better off staying out of it in the first place.
    They also both questioned whether an entrance sign barring concealed weapons would deter people from bringing them in.

    One reason both candidates would favor guns in bars lies in the gun lobby that has fought for this law, its deep constituency in Virginia and the unquestionable influence it wields over many Virginia politicians.

    Another is this: As of May there were roughly 189,000 active concealed-carry permit holders in Virginia.

    If November's contest is anything like their historically close 2005 race for attorney general, neither Deeds nor McDonnell can risk alienating any voters.

    That's why it's clear concealed-guns-in-bars in Virginia looks like a pretty good bet for 2010, just like it was this year in neighboring Tennessee, where it recently passed.

    So next year, with burning cigarettes banned from most restaurants, perhaps the most likely kind of bar smoke we'll see is smoldering wisps that emerge from hot pistol barrels after some permit-holding, gun-hiding patrons get into a face-off.

    That is insanity, Virginia.
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    I'm just one root in a grassroots organization. No one should assume that I speak for the VCDL.

    I am neither an attorney-at-law nor I do play one on television or on the internet. No one should assumes my opinion is legal advice.

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    ...So next year, with burning cigarettes banned from most restaurants, perhaps the most likely kind of bar smoke we'll see is smoldering wisps that emerge from hot pistol barrels after some permit-holding, gun-hiding patrons get into a face-off.

    What a 'load of horse manure' statement.

    Perhaps Mr. Casey could explain how any law keeps dirtbags from carrying guns in bars NOW.
    We've not had 'pistol barrel smoke' down here in our FL restaurants where CC is allowed, and one can even have a beer with dinner.

    Mr. Casey...

    Stay armed...in a FL restaurant...stay safe!
    I think that TN permit holders can handle that, too!
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    Most clubs and bars in Seattle do not have metal detectors and almost all of the gangstas are armed with automatic weapons. I had a close call once at the last supper club at Pioneer Square when one of the patrons decided to shoot his uzi style weapon into the air. The bouncers are not armed and it can get real dangerous since the cops there are overworked and don't have enough resources to handle so many incidents in one night.

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    "Bad judgment and alcohol already are regular companions without guns in the mix. "That upstanding person who has the concealed carry permit is not the same person after 10 beers," Moore observed."

    This is the same type of B-S response we had from the liberal media folks here in Tennessee. I just don't get it...the media and bar owners just don't seem as concerned about the person that drinks 10 beers, gets in his 4000 lb vehicle and attempts to drive home.

    Maybe the states should show statistics comparing how many people are killed or injured by drunk drivers each year versus how many people have been shot by legitimate gun permit holders.

    I think the stats will show that they need to be more concerned with their patrons drive home from the bars.

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    "When you're carrying concealed, you retain the element of surprise much more than if you're carrying openly," Pratt told me. And that would give you an edge over any attacker, he added.
    Simple benefit of an upstanding citizen having the means to protect himself.

    It's precisely that prospect that frightens the dickens out of two well-known and experienced Roanoke-area barkeeps.

    "Can you tell me one good thing that could happen from someone who carried a concealed weapon into a bar?
    What benefit? Upstanding citizens have a fighting chance against felons who attack them, if armed. Hm. Barkeeps want felons to prevail, eh? Perhaps all upstanding citizens should go to restaurants instead of bars.

    Small minds equate being present in a place with wholesale disregard for one's wits and ending up committing felony attacks on others. In those states where one is not prejudged to be a criminal for mere presence in a place, blood has not run in the streets. The vast majority of upstanding citizens simply are NOT a threat, not even when they're out to a restaurant or bar with friends. And, even then, one still has a right to defense against felonious attack.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
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    This is ridiculous. I want the law to pass so that I don't have to do the "Virginia tuck", or leave my gun in the car when I carry in my pocket, and I want to dine in a restaurant. Here in Nevada, not only can you carry in bars and have a drink, you only have to stay under 0.10 (you can't even drive with that blood level of alcohol). And with that, we don't have shoot outs, and in fact, I don't know of any that have happened, at least since I've lived in Vegas. It's pure BS.

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    Just went through the same crap here in TN. I hope it passes!

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    Seems like that writer has watched too many westerns! LOL

    And its not just "guns in bars". Its any restaurant that serves alcohol, which includes sitdown dinners with your family, who you want to protect, at an upscale restaurant.

    In any case, I think McDonnell sees the issue more strongly - that it is about preserving a right provided by the Constitution. Deeds seems like he's trying to backtrack and make it about alcohol. The past two governors from his party haven't been exactly too friendly to gun owners in Virginia.

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    In Minnesota, you can carry in bars/restaurants as long as you stay below 0.04.
    ‎An enemy of liberty is no friend of mine. I do not owe respect to anyone who would enslave me by government force, nor is it wise for such a person to expect it. -- Isaiah Amberay

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    Quote Originally Posted by louie19 View Post
    And its not just "guns in bars". Its any restaurant that serves alcohol, which includes sitdown dinners with your family, who you want to protect, at an upscale restaurant.
    Bingo, Louie. I'm likely not going to take my family to the "corner bar" or the "local Irish Pub" for lunch or dinner. I will, however, take them to several other restaurants for lunch, dinner, breakfast, brunch, or whatever. In Richmond, there are at least a thousand great restaurants for brunch or dinner, and almost all of them sell alcohol. Most do NOT meet the layman's definition of a "bar." Hell, some thugs just shot up a Denny's in a coordinated attack the other day...why not River City Diner?

    It's just extreme willful ignorance on the part of this newspaper, couched in language designed to do nothing except stir up negative images of gun owners and this legislation. I'm so tired of arguing with people who simply will not listen to the facts or reason. HOWEVER, I'm not giving up, and I vote. They won't win.

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    If some bartender is serving a customer 10 beers at a shot, he needs his liquor license revoked.
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    First of all, WE DO NOT HAVE BARS IN VIRGINIA. Any establishment which serves only alcohol is illegal. A restaurant can serve alcohol and even have a bar area, but the largest percent of there income must be from food. Secondly, we can already carry a gun in said restaurants, and drink as well, as long as it is openly carried. This, is of course subject to posting signs prohibiting such carry as would the CCW in places that serve alcohol law.

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    It's precisely that prospect that frightens the dickens out of two well-known and experienced Roanoke-area barkeeps.

    "Can you tell me one good thing that could happen from someone who carried a concealed weapon into a bar?
    Quote Originally Posted by celticredneck View Post
    ... we can already carry a gun in said restaurants, and drink as well, as long as it is openly carried.
    Hm. Barkeeps are perfectly accepting of open carry into restaurants but are scared senseless by concealed carry into the same, as if the world will end if upstanding people now have one fewer laws twisted to brand them as criminals.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

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    The idea of banning guns carried by people trained and with ccp is stupid. The BG will be there. I prefer to be prepared to defend myself and those with me.

    Do not drink and drive. Do not drink in a bar while carrying.
    Glock 33 .357 SIG plus .40 S&W barrel for most of practice. Keep loaded with .357 SIG hollow point for home protection.

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    After reading the anti-gun slant by our liberal Roanoke Times, I emailed Dan Casey, dan.casey@roanoke.com and reminded him, although I'am sure he had never heard of the Luby massacre in Killeen, TX. On October 16, 1991. George Jo Hennard killed 23 people and wounded 20 more. It remained the worst massacre in American history until the VA Tech massacre.

    Susanna Gratia Hupp was there with her parents and had left her handgun in her car due to the laws at that time forbidding citizens from carrying firearms. Both her parents were killed that day and she regrets abiding by the law to this day. By the way, this occured in a RESTAURANT.

    In 1995 Texas passed a shall issue gun law because of this massacre.

    Everyone email Dan Casey and let know about our 2A-RKBA.
    "The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people; it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government".
    Patrick Henry

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