Reloads or factory ammo in CC weapons?

Reloads or factory ammo in CC weapons?

This is a discussion on Reloads or factory ammo in CC weapons? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I was listening to a well known gun expert and author on his weekly, gun oriented, radio talk show last weekend and one of the ...

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Thread: Reloads or factory ammo in CC weapons?

  1. #1
    Senior Member Array rachilders's Avatar
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    Reloads or factory ammo in CC weapons?

    I was listening to a well known gun expert and author on his weekly, gun oriented, radio talk show last weekend and one of the discussions involved using reloads or hand loads in a self-defense weapon. His recommendation was that anyone who owns a gun for protection should never load it with anything other than factory ammo unless you're practicing. His reasoning was that if you ever have to shoot someone, the police will check your bullets and if you are using reloads or make your own "custom" loads, most gun hating, liberal, anti 2nd amendment DA's and prosecutors are going to jump at the chance to put you away. His logic was the lawyers would say you loaded up your ammo to inflict the maximum damage, thereby causing needless and unnecessary pain, suffering and possible death to your "victim".

    When was the last time anyone remembers this actually happening and just how often does this really happen, especially considering the hundreds of thousands of self-defense shootings that occur every year? You'd think with that many shootings happening, there would be cases in the news almost every day if it were a real concern. I could understand a possible problem in the old days when a self-defense load consisted of cutting an "X" in the nose of lead bullets or drilling them out and filling them with mercury, but most modern bullets used by hand loaders are almost identical to the ones used by high end and custom ammo makers these days. I'd think a prosecutor could find something better to nail you with - IF he really thinks there's a reason to prosecute - than trying to piece together the bits of your spent bullets and say you are trying to be the next Paul Kersey (Charles Bronson's vigilante character in the Death Wish series of movies).

    My question is, (and this is just my personal opinion) why does this "urban myth" continue to hang around? It seems like just another better safe than sorry, kneejerk, overkill reaction to our lawsuit happy society.
    "... Americans... we want a safe home, to keep the money we make and shoot bad guys." -- Denny Crane


  2. #2
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    I always use factory ammo in my self-defense firearms.

    I think that if you are in a environment (municipality) that is anti-gun, they are going to try and use everything they can to prosecute you. Reloaded ammo offers nothing in terms of accuracy, dependability, or firepower, over factory ammo, to enhance your odds of survival in a gunfight.

    Why do anything that can contribute to your own downfall?

    Why give them something to work with to make you out to be the bad guy?

    I could go on and on about this, but I think I've said enough.
    Heroes are people who do what has to be done, when it has to be done, regardless of the consequences

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  3. #3
    Member Array glocksmygun's Avatar
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    reloads.

    Reloaded ammo offers nothing in terms of accuracy, dependability, or firepower, over factory ammo, to enhance your odds of survival in a gunfight.


    This statement is so true. I would say dependability would be the biggest factor. I only carry factory ammo in my carry guns.

  4. #4
    Member Array Shekkian's Avatar
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    Read the latest issue of American Handgunner. Massad Ayoob wrote an artice about just such an incident where a man's wife commited suicide with his gun loaded with hand loads. He went to court and was put away for three years on manslaughter charges.

  5. #5
    Distinguished Member Array RSSZ's Avatar
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    Reloaded ammo for CC/self defense,huh?? Well, here's my take on it,and it's pretty simple.

    I don't concern myself with what the prosecuter will/would say.Although maybe I should and maybe you should. I just figure that I will have more important stuff to concentrate on. Things like protecting myself and my family. Things like hitting my target. Things like cancelling the threat ASAP.

    I realize that the court thing comes next. Me and my friends do allot of training as to the laws of the state. The "good shoot,bad shoot" laws. I feel that this is as important(almost) as mindset,targeting of your weapon,and reliability of your equipment.

    I reload for 13 or so,different calibers/gauges,but not for my CCW's. I reload for added bullet velocity,choice of bullet,and accuracy. All these come into play at the ranges typically involved in hunting. My CCW ammo is a 7 or stretching it,15 yard ammo. Your factory loaded ammo choices include some really hot loaded stuff. Also bullets that I can be confident that will do the job on a human target.

    Also I shoot quite a few rds. per year in training and in competition. If I reloaded these rds. I would spend too much time reloading and not enough time shooting. If you buy your training ammo in bulk,it comes pretty close to the price of home reloaded ammo anyway. Also there are some companies that sell great reloads at,or below the prices that you could do it for.

    For me,for CCW,factory ammo is the way to go.

  6. #6
    VIP Member Array Bud White's Avatar
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    This topic has been debated a lot with no clear answer's

    Even with the article in the latest american handgunner it still is clear look at the goof's make when checking the ammo..

    I Made a post about the article and gave the short version ..

    http://www.combatcarry.com/vbulletin...ead.php?t=8079

  7. #7
    Distinguished Member Array snowdoctor's Avatar
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    The prosecutor could just as easy say that you bought the ammunition that would inflict the most damage, instead of you reloading it. A reloading manual and an unspent cartridge would verify your load compared to something say a corbon +p. I reload and never load that "hot".
    We had a debate a few months ago about a hammered vs. hammerless revolver. prosecutors will say anything....but a justified shoot is a justified shoot...no matter what kind of shell is in the gun.
    ----DOC-----

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    Senior Member Array AirForceShooter's Avatar
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    so, If i'm carrying gold dots or Mag-Techs or any other SD ammo made in a factory I'm ok?

    AFS
    Gun control is hitting what you aim at

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    I agree with everyone's comments: I would say "no" too to using reloads in a self defense (SD) weapon when used for that purpose. Range use of reloads, well of course that's cool....it's cheap and allows to train more.

    I also recall Ayoob's various articles over the years stressing that use of reloads for SD should be verboten. I recall one of his articles was about a man prosecuted years ago for shooting someone else in SD. The shooter used his home brewed .45 ACP reloads; in his case 200 grain CCI JHPs, but loaded lighter than the Speer's factory 200 grain JHP load. The prosecutor went no where with his argument that the use of reloads showed the shooter's depravity in wanting to kill the man with specially tailored death bullets since the rounds were loaded light.

    Ayoobs' contention here was, I think, dead on: why give "ammo" (no pun intended) to opposing counsel by using reloads for SD?
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  10. #10
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    This one never goes away!!

    Despite almost no proof that it creates a problem having own loads - the botton line for me is simply - ''why take a chance''! Bit like erasing a gun's SN in a picture on the web - probably doesn't matter but ''why take a chance''.!

    I'll stick to my GD's - LE seems to like em!
    Chris - P95
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    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by AirForceShooter
    so, If i'm carrying gold dots or Mag-Techs or any other SD ammo made in a factory I'm ok?

    AFS
    Yeah....you should have no problems.

    I like the idea of carrying whatever ammo LEO's carry so that way if a plantiff's attorney (or prosecutor) says something to the effect that I carried evil death-dealing "dum-dum" bullets to severely incapacite or kill their client, I'll simply point out that I carry the same round the nice court officer not ten feet away from us carries in their gun.
    USAF: Loving Our Obscene Amenities Since 1947

  12. #12
    VIP Member Array Tubby45's Avatar
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    There has never been a case where there was a conviction because of handloaded ammunition. I'm not worried about it.

    It all boils down to: Was the action of using deadly force justified or not?
    07/02 FFL/SOT since 2006

  13. #13
    Senior Member Array Tom357's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AirForceShooter
    so, If i'm carrying gold dots or Mag-Techs or any other SD ammo made in a factory I'm ok?

    AFS
    I think it depends on what you mean by "OK". Unless your ammo plays a bizarrely prominent role in the outcome of your shooting, your choice of ammo will only be a minor point of consideration for determining if it was a good shoot or not. Your actions and decision to engage, draw and fire will be far more important that whose cartridge you selected. With that in mind, I would say that your choice of ammo isn't going to make you "OK". It may not hurt your case, any. What will make you "OK" is your training and decision-making.

    If I have to defend myself, I want every chance at an airtight, indisputable good shoot. For practice, I use factory reload/new ammo, because I can shoot 357SIG for less than 20 cents per round, that way. For personal carry, I use the same premium JHP's used by local and state police and other respected agencies. I do this for consistency, accuracy, performance, and so that if something were to go wrong with the ammo, a manufacturing defect can't be a result of my negligence.
    - Tom
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  14. #14
    Senior Member Array rachilders's Avatar
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    It looks like most of the replies are against using reloads. It also seems the cases cited where reloads were used against a shooter are EXTREMELY rare to almost non-existant, especially considering the number of SD shootings yearly. Rather than basing the decision on actual cases where the bullets from reloads were used against the shooter (assuming the shooter was a good guy defending himself or someone else), the main reason for using factory ammo seems to be "just in case".

    Personally, the only reloading I do is with my black powder guns and the only reloads I shoot in my other guns are the reloads I buy at local gun shows for target practice. All my carry ammo is factory. With all the research and development that goes into modern ammunition, I doubt if I could load anything better myself even if I wanted to.

    My reason in starting this thread was to get the opinion of those who actually carry guns on a regular basis. I regularly hear stories of anti-gun lawyers using any excuse to drive home their anti-2nd amendment agenda's, but when asked for particulars and examples, there are almost none other than a few odd cases like the one in American Rifleman which someone pointed out happened 15 years ago and where the bullet was simply another nail in the coffin of a case that would have been brought regardless of the bullet used. It didn't even involve a self-defense shooting but a suicide/manslaughter.

    The chances of having to use a weapon in self-defense are, for most of us, millions to one. If the past record is any indication, the chances of being prosecuted because of the bullet you used in a self-defense shooting is tens of millions (if not greater) to one. It would seem from the statistics that you are more likely to be hit by a meteor or have an airplane crash into the roof of your house than go to trial over your choice of self-defense ammo. I guess it all boils down to personal choice, how pro/anti gun the local climate where you live is and, of course, whether you reload or not. I see no logical reason, in view of past history, not to use reloads in a self defense weapon. At the same time, with the quality of the factory SD ammunition available now, why would anyone want to.
    Last edited by rachilders; March 20th, 2006 at 05:47 PM.
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  15. #15
    Senior Member Array TonyW's Avatar
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    I have been using factory ammo for the short time I've been carrying. For many of the reason mentioned already. Why take the chance of causing yourself more legal problems. The premium ammo is well made and reliable, cheaper WWB or reloads can be used for practice. Another piece of advice I have heard to to find out what your local law enforcement uses and buy that. Hard for an anti-gun prosecutor to argue against that.
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