Thoughts on CC at city park July 4th: VA specific

This is a discussion on Thoughts on CC at city park July 4th: VA specific within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; In the years past and I'am sure this year too, The Roanoke Times newspaper co-sponcers a music and fireworks event in a city park, and ...

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Thread: Thoughts on CC at city park July 4th: VA specific

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    Member Array Roy McC's Avatar
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    Thoughts on CC at city park July 4th: VA specific

    In the years past and I'am sure this year too, The Roanoke Times newspaper co-sponcers a music and fireworks event in a city park, and their newspaper add says NO GUNS.

    My question is can this be legal since they do not own the park?
    There are no posted signs either.

    Thoughts please.
    "The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people; it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government".
    Patrick Henry

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    JD
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    From the VCDL's website:

    Places Where Carrying Concealed is Prohibited
    NOTE: In most, but not all, locations where concealed carry is prohibited, open carry is also prohibited.
    # Federal Property (concealed carry with CHP and hunting exempted in National Forests) (18USC 930)
    # General Assembly Building & property (open or concealed carry OK for CHP holders only) (JRC Rule)
    # State Parks (concealed carry w/CHP legal but open carry prohibited)
    # Virginia Commonwealth University (8VAC90-10-50)
    # Courthouses (18.2-283.1)
    # Detention Facilities (15.2-915)
    # K-12 school property (unless unloaded in a closed container). CHP holders may possess a loaded concealed handgun while in a vehicle. (18.2-308.1)
    # K-12 school buses. (18.2-308.1)
    # Property used exclusively for K-12 school-sponsored functions (18.2-308.1)
    # Air carrier airport terminal buildings (18.2-287.01)
    # Places of worship while a meeting for religious purposes is being held "without good and sufficient reason" (18.2-283)
    # Restaurants & clubs serving on-premises alcohol (concealed carry prohibited, open carry NOT prohibited; owners & employees exempted) (18.2-308.J3)
    # Private property when prohibited by owner (18.2-308.O)

    Municipalities and cities can not enact more stringent gun laws than the state, IIRC Norfolk tried that to no avail other than getting sued.

    Taken from "The Brady Bunch"

    PREEMPTION - LOCAL GUN LAWS
    May municipalities enact law stronger than the state's? No

    State law forbids local city or county governments from enacting any local gun laws, even though the state has failed to pass responsible state-wide laws. This preemption of local government authority makes it impossible for cities to enact sensible gun laws to make their citizens safer. Local laws enacted prior to 1987 were allowed to remain in force.
    So in short, you can carry as those signs have no legal weight, now if you get caught, you can probably expect some hassle, but you'd be within the law.

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    Distinguished Member Array ArmyCop's Avatar
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    Got any PD friends to ask? Down here in Mobile Alabama the only time I can think of where CC is normally okay - during Mardi Gras NO GUNS during parades.

    Curious about your situation - wating for other responses...
    For God, Family and Country!

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    Member Array Roy McC's Avatar
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    I talked to the person at the infomation phone number for the City of Roanoke Police Dept. and was told that it was a public event and therefore no guns permitted.
    "The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people; it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government".
    Patrick Henry

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roy McC View Post
    I talked to the person at the infomation phone number for the City of Roanoke Police Dept. and was told that it was a public event and therefore no guns permitted.
    I didn't see "public event" on the list of prohibited locations. Did I miss something?

    Ken

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roy McC View Post
    I talked to the person at the infomation phone number for the City of Roanoke Police Dept. and was told that it was a public event and therefore no guns permitted.
    I'd call him back and ask for a reference on the "public event" prohibition. I'd bet he can't come up with one.

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    JD
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roy McC View Post
    I talked to the person at the infomation phone number for the City of Roanoke Police Dept. and was told that it was a public event and therefore no guns permitted.
    That's a load of crap, Norfolk tried that and when they did arrest someone for carrying at such an event, they HAD to drop the charges as they COULDN'T charge him for disregarding their illegal policy.


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    BULL

    Quote Originally Posted by Roy McC View Post
    I talked to the person at the infomation phone number for the City of Roanoke Police Dept. and was told that it was a public event and therefore no guns permitted.
    If you have a name of who you talked to, please PM me.

    Quote Originally Posted by JD View Post
    That's a load of crap, Norfolk tried that and when they did arrest someone for carrying at such an event, they HAD to drop the charges as they COULDN'T charge him for disregarding their illegal policy.
    + 1

    Last year VCDL posted the following:

    City of Roanoke cannot ban guns at Fourth of July Festival,
    contrary to flyer
    ************************************************** *****

    There is a 4th of July festival at River's Edge Sports Complex in
    Roanoke tomorrow. It is cosponsored by the anti-gun Roanoke Times.

    The flyer says that "all firearms are strictly prohibited."

    Sounds like the Roanoke Times is smoking some kind of weed again.

    The City CANNOT ban guns in a public park.

    I have talked to the Roanoke Commonwealth Attorney's office and also Sgt. Smith with Roanoke PD to make sure we are one the same page.

    The event will have off-duty Roanoke officers providing security.

    If you are prevented from bringing a legally carried gun into the event by any of the officers, comply with their unlawful orders, but first get their names and badge numbers and give that information to me so that this can be settled later.

    You might ask the officers to contact Sgt. Smith or the Commonwealth Attorney's office to confirm that the officers cannot legally enforce a gun ban on public property.

    The code section that prohibits the City from banning guns in pubic
    parks and buildings is 15.2-915.

    Those carrying concealed shouldn't have any problems as the officer's won't know you're carrying, of course.
    I just checked the RT WEB Site:

    http://www.roanoke.com/musicforamericans/wb/xp-index

    If they are trying the "No Guns" again this year, I missed it. Hope they got the message.

    If you see a flyer with it please advise.
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    I am neither an attorney-at-law nor I do play one on television or on the internet. No one should assumes my opinion is legal advice.

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    Distinguished Member Array GWRedDragon's Avatar
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    City park = preemption applies.

    15.2-915. Control of firearms; applicability to authorities and local governmental agencies.

    A. No locality shall adopt or enforce any ordinance, resolution or motion, as permitted by 15.2-1425, and no agent of such locality shall take any administrative action, governing the purchase, possession, transfer, ownership, carrying, storage or transporting of firearms, ammunition, or components or combination thereof other than those expressly authorized by statute. For purposes of this section, a statute that does not refer to firearms, ammunition, or components or combination thereof, shall not be construed to provide express authorization.

    Nothing in this section shall prohibit a locality from adopting workplace rules relating to terms and conditions of employment of the workforce. Nothing in this section shall prohibit a law-enforcement officer, as defined in 9.1-101 from acting within the scope of his duties.

    The provisions of this section applicable to a locality shall also apply to any authority or to a local governmental entity, including a department or agency, but not including any local or regional jail or juvenile detention facility.

    B. Any local ordinance, resolution or motion adopted prior to the effective date of this act governing the purchase, possession, transfer, ownership, carrying or transporting of firearms, ammunition, or components or combination thereof, other than those expressly authorized by statute, is invalid.
    Even if alcohol is served it is likely with a 'special event license', not a 'restaurant' or 'club' license, so CC would be allowed.

    Carry all you want.

    If you choose to open carry have a lawyer lined up first so you can be sure to rake in one of those $15,000 settlements they've been handing out when they illegally arrest you
    "Trust in God with hand on sword" -Inscription on my family's coat of arms from medieval England
    ---Carry options: G26/MTAC, PF9/MiniTuck, PPK/Pocket, USP40/OWB---
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    Member Array Roy McC's Avatar
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    DaveH

    Thanks for your usual exact and prom response. The small add I saw in last weeks newspaper didn't say "no firearms", but I'am sure there will be a larger add soon that will say that. Maybe you scared our liberal paper last year and they want print the no firearms this year. You would hope the info number at the police dept. would get it right! Thanks for all your help.
    "The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people; it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government".
    Patrick Henry

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    Member Array Roy McC's Avatar
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    I will CC my Glock G26 and no one will know. I do have a permit. There is no close parking, so when it's over, we will have a long dark walk. It's in a safe area but today, nothing is SAFE.
    Last edited by Roy McC; June 29th, 2009 at 09:01 PM. Reason: correction
    "The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people; it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government".
    Patrick Henry

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    Member Array Rolling Oaks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roy McC View Post
    In the years past and I'am sure this year too, The Roanoke Times newspaper co-sponcers a music and fireworks event in a city park, and their newspaper add says NO GUNS.

    My question is can this be legal since they do not own the park?
    There are no posted signs either.

    Thoughts please.
    Virginia has very clear laws about this.

    If it is on public property they may not ban or regulate guns at all.

    Even if a company rents said public property, they still may not ban guns or forbid carry in any form.

    Their "no guns" thing is illegal, period. You should call them and politely remind them that their ban is illegal and that any attempt to keep you from carrying in any form or any arrest will be met with a large and proper law suit.

    And you should also remind them of Virginia's newest gun law that goes into effect on July 1st that says that all court costs and attorneys fees associated with cases of this nature will be reimburse to the the victim in the case should the case turn out in your favor, which it will.
    Do whatever floats your boat, but don't dare to try and sink mine.

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    I actually trust what is posted on the VCDL website over what local government and LEO may tell me over the telephone. From my understanding of your question, I believe you are within your rights to defend yourself and carry a concealed firearm if you are have the appropriate CCW.

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    Member Array Rolling Oaks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gglockster View Post
    I actually trust what is posted on the VCDL website over what local government and LEO may tell me over the telephone. From my understanding of your question, I believe you are within your rights to defend yourself and carry a concealed firearm if you are have the appropriate CCW.
    Not debating open vs concealed carry here, but just need to say. In Virginia you may defend yourself without a CCW. You can openly carry a gun in plain view on your hip without a permit or license in Virginia. You can open carry in more places in Virginia than you can conceal carry.

    For example, in Virginia you may not conceal carry firearms into an establishment that both sells and serves alcohol. You may however openly carry such a firearm into any establishment that both sells and serves alcohol.
    Do whatever floats your boat, but don't dare to try and sink mine.

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    May not will

    Quote Originally Posted by Rolling Oaks View Post
    And you should also remind them of Virginia's newest gun law that goes into effect on July ST that says that all court costs and attorneys fees associated with cases of this nature will be reimburse to the the victim in the case should the case turn out in your favor, which it will. [emphasis added]
    Unfortunately it is not "will."

    The filled version was changed from "shall award" to "...court may award...."

    Bill Tracking - 2009 session > Legislation

    CHAPTER 735
    An Act to amend and reenact 15.2-915 of the Code of Virginia, relating to control of firearms; court costs and attorney fees.
    [H 1655]
    Approved March 30, 2009

    ....
    C. In addition to any other relief provided, the court may award reasonable attorney fees, expenses, and court costs to any person, group, or entity that prevails in an action challenging (i) an ordinance, resolution, or motion as being in conflict with this section or (ii) an administrative action taken in bad faith as being in conflict with this section.
    Μολὼν λαβέ

    I'm just one root in a grassroots organization. No one should assume that I speak for the VCDL.

    I am neither an attorney-at-law nor I do play one on television or on the internet. No one should assumes my opinion is legal advice.

    Veni, Vidi, Velcro

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