I have a lot of customers that I "cant carry" into...what should I do?

This is a discussion on I have a lot of customers that I "cant carry" into...what should I do? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I am a manufacturers Sales rep. I just started carrying and will be carrying 100% of the time once my supertuck arrives... however this is ...

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Thread: I have a lot of customers that I "cant carry" into...what should I do?

  1. #1
    Member Array bgcole's Avatar
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    I have a lot of customers that I "cant carry" into...what should I do?

    I am a manufacturers Sales rep. I just started carrying and will be carrying 100% of the time once my supertuck arrives... however this is my question... (its more like a paragraph style question)

    I am in upstate NY with a CCW. Most of my work is in Buffalo and Rochester. My permit is Monroe county NY...

    I have a bunch of customers that are Military contractors, ITAR restricted and armed security guards. Now i have only seen a few places that actually say "no firearms" and one place that i can think of asks the question on the sign in sheet if i am in possession of any firearms.

    Personally I was planning on just keeping it concealed and answering no on the sheets with the exception of one or two places that I rarely have to go... BUT then i was talking to another rep in the same exact industry with a lot of the same customers (kind of a competitor actually) who said he would not ever carry into any of these places i am referencing. I believe he is planning on leaving his weapon locked in his car at those visits...

    What does everyone think? I didn't see anything on handgunlaw.us about signs but i know that i am not required to notify an LEO...

    I am definitely interested in the law so that i don't get arrested or something (although im not sure how anyone would ever know)... but i think my friend was more worried about the loss of business from said customers.... so i will take opinions on that one too

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  3. #2
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    A few pertinent questions come to mind:

    1. In NY, does a mere sign have any force of law? Or, if requested to leave, you must simply leave or be liable for criminal trespass?

    2. These "military contractors" you speak of ... are they federal government facilities other other places expressly identified by Federal or NY law as being verboten for carry of defensive weapons?

    3. What's your employer's position with respect to the carry of defensive weapons? Would your employer fire your butt even though it might be perfectly legal in all other respects to carry defensive weapons?
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
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  4. #3
    VIP Member Array varob's Avatar
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    If you have a clearance status, and carry some kind of badge, will you be at risk of loosing your "clearance" if you are caught braking the posted "rules".

    Best case, you do carry and nobody knows. :Worst case, you lose your job and find yourself in a lot of legal hot water.
    Don't believe what you hear and only half of what you see!
    -Tony Soprano

  5. #4
    Member Array Joel's Avatar
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    Yep, we have the right to carry. No question about it! If you have the license, you are OK.....

    Your employer has a similar right to fire you WITHOUT CAUSE. No questions asked, just tell you to peddle your papers down the road because he doesn't like you.

    Your employer's customers have a choice to buy their goods and services from whomever they want, and they have the "right" to tell you and tell your employer that they choose to deal with your competitor.... no reason required. They don't like your "green tie" or your unshined shoes or your bad breath.... point is:

    Choose your battles. Just as you have the "right" to carry, they have the "right" to feel safe in their environment and some folk do not understand, like or want guns around them.

    Unless you think that your life might be in danger and you refuse to "go there" unarmed, YOU HAVE TO RESPECT the wishes of those you are selling your goods and services to.




    You also have the "right" to multiple nose rings, full face tattoos and purple hair... LOL

  6. #5
    Member Array Tye_Defender's Avatar
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    I don't know about the law in NY, and since I'm not a lawyer I wouldn't even be able to give good legal advice here in Arkansas, but I can tell you what I do.

    I work for a large company that doesn't allow "the possession of weapons of any type" because of it's "adverse impact on the work environment". I have made a few "assumptions" about that particular paragraph that I think I could defend, if I have to. 1) It only applies when I am on company property. 2) It does not apply to a specific tool that I need to use to directly support my job. So, I don't carry my handgun on company property, but do have a pocket knife, screwdrivers, etc. because I need them to do my job. (Even though a knife is obviously a weapon and a screwdriver is as well)I also do not carry my handgun at customer locations, if I am there for work, since my customer may not approve and my company probably wouldn't either. However, if/when I go to one of those locations for personal reasons, I do carry.

    For me, the decision to carry or not is a cost/benefit type decision. One of the cost / potential cost of carrying at work is discovery that I have broken a company policy/rule. (There are others, discomfort, inconvenience, etc.) The benefits of carrying are pretty obvious, safety, etc. At my primary work location I am behind a badge access door and there aren't that many of us in that area, there is also visible security at the entrances and around the building, so I am safer than normal when I am at work. The risk of someone discovering I am carrying is higher than normal because of the type of work I do and the fact that some of the guards and a couple of my co-workers are ex-police so they are more observant than average. The co-workers also know I'm a gun guy (we talk about shooting, complain we can't go often enough because we can't find ammo, etc.) so they might not assume the bulge was my cell phone, especially when it rings and I reach for my front pocket instead. If someone did notice, and management got involved, it is possible that I would be fired. It is more likely that I would just be disciplined (90 day shape up or ship out thing, worst part is no pay raise, no bonus, no profit sharing, etc.) but either one would have a financial impact on my family.

    While working at a customer location, the risk of attack of at least being present when a attack occurs is higher, since it is a public place, but the risk of discovery is also higher because it is much more likely that I am crawling around equipment. If I was discovered to be breaking my company's policy and the customer's policy while at their location it is almost guaranteed that I would be fired. Since I am not at a customer location for work very often, I have decided the cost is to high for the benefit.

    However, I am at one of my customer's locations much more often when I'm not working and I carry then always. (The location is not posted, the public carries there) The risk of attack is about the same, but the risk of discovery is much lower (not climbing around) and the cost of discovery is much lower, since they probably don't connect me with the technician that was there last month installing whatever it was, they would probably just ask me to leave or cover my weapon better and nothing more would come of it, unless I made a scene.

    So, as you can see, I have decided not to carry at work, but do carry the rest of the time. I keep my gun locked up in my car when I'm at work, so I can put it back when I leave work for the day, lunch, etc. This might be against company policy but I don't think it is and have no intention of asking to find out.

  7. #6
    Ex Member Array Oldskoolfan's Avatar
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    You don't want anti-gun people to use and benefit from your products, do you? I would not sell to them just as I would not buy anything from them. Find some good ol' fashioned pro-gunners to sell to.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldskoolfan View Post
    You don't want anti-gun people to use and benefit from your products, do you? I would not sell to them just as I would not buy anything from them. Find some good ol' fashioned pro-gunners to sell to.
    That's a fine sentiment, however it isn't practical. I'm sure his employer won't see it his way. As a salesman I'm sure he works under some sort of quota system, it drops and the employer will get rid of the "dead weight". Now if he were the owner of the company that would be his choice to make, as an employee it isn't his right.

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    Senior Member Array redbird's Avatar
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    Get a car safe of some kind and bolt it to the floor when you go in the facility lock you weapon and re arm when you are off the property. Anti gun people are always looking for some kind of incident to use against legal carry people.

  10. #9
    Member Array BlackJack's Avatar
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    Two questions...

    1. Do you want to keep your customers?
    2. Do you want to keep your job?

    If the answer to either of these two questions is "yes" then I would reccomend that you follow thier wishes while on thier property, or in thier facilities.

  11. #10
    Senior Member Array TucAzRider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackJack View Post
    Two questions...

    1. Do you want to keep your customers?
    2. Do you want to keep your job?

    If the answer to either of these two questions is "yes" then I would reccomend that you follow thier wishes while on thier property, or in thier facilities.
    Jobs and customers are overrated... .

  12. #11
    Member Array jplate3's Avatar
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    I am in NY, and it is to my knowledge that regardless of what county you receive your permit from, as long as you have no restrictions on your permit you are allowed to carry, concealed, anywhere that is not federally restricted or clearly posted. If the place is clearly posted "No Firearms", you are not allowed to carry on that property.

    You say that you are asked if you are in possession of firearms. Is that for knowledge or to restrict your carry?

    One good rule to live by: never, never, never lie. You will be in more trouble getting caught in a lie, than if you just hadn't said anything at all.

  13. #12
    Senior Member Array boscobeans's Avatar
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    NYS LAW
    § 400.00 Licenses to carry, possess, repair and dispose of firearms.

    Subsection 2. "Types of licenses"
    (f) (no restrictions) have and carry concealed, without regard to employment or place of possession, by any person when proper cause exists for the issuance thereof.

    If you have the above type of license you can carry your pistol anywhere NOT PROHIBITED BY LAW, such as : Gov't (Fed, State & most Local) buildings, certain parks and campsites and etc,,, So your visits to "Gov't" facilities are out.

    There are no rules about parades, ball parks, bars, theaters or other type public places.

    NYS has no laws about signage that I can find, I am NOT a lawyer, and I have looked carefully. It is JUST my opinion but if there is a sign at the door it means nothing legally, however if you are spotted and asked to leave I think you MUST. I have lived in NY all my life and have very rarely seen a sign except at gun stores (some BS) and if I have missed any at other places TOO BAD.

    bosco

  14. #13
    Member Array Manan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redbird View Post
    Get a car safe of some kind and bolt it to the floor when you go in the facility lock you weapon and re arm when you are off the property. Anti gun people are always looking for some kind of incident to use against legal carry people.
    First, thanks for carrying concealed. The above quote I agree with. It is excellent advice that I conform to everyday.

    Remember, These are yours and your employers customers. I would hate for you and your company to lose an account because of someones differing feeling about handguns.

    A complaint could even lose you your job and get you blackballed within your industry.

    It is a pain, but discreetly disarm and rearm where and when appropriate. Remember to secure your firearm while locked in your vehicle.

    And as far as filling out the questionnaire form, NEVER LIE !!!!!!!!!!
    NRA Member
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    www.ShootersEar.com

  15. #14
    Distinguished Member Array JerryM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackJack View Post
    Two questions...

    1. Do you want to keep your customers?
    2. Do you want to keep your job?

    If the answer to either of these two questions is "yes" then I would reccomend that you follow thier wishes while on thier property, or in thier facilities.
    +1.
    Jerry

  16. #15
    Member Array Joel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldskoolfan View Post
    You don't want ASIAN people to use and benefit from your products, do you? I would not sell to them just as I would not buy anything from them. Find some good ol' fashioned HISPANICS to sell to.
    1) He is an employee
    2) He sells to ANYONE who wants his product
    3) There are 12 people out there who want his job
    4) His wife and kids kinda, sorta like having a roof over their heads
    5) His wife and kids kinda, sorta like eating every single day
    6) It's his boss's football and the boss gets to make the rules
    7) It's his boss's liability policy that'll pay for any safety issues

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