Brady Anti-1618 Spin Begins
This is a discussion on Brady Anti-1618 Spin Begins within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Senator John Thune of North Dakota has introduced an amendment (No. 1618) to the Department of Defense appropriations authorization bill (S. 1390) , which could ...
July 17th, 2009 05:34 PM
Brady Anti-1618 Spin Begins
Senator John Thune of North Dakota has introduced an amendment (No. 1618) to the Department of Defense appropriations authorization bill (S. 1390) , which could come up for a vote as early as Monday, July 20.
This proposal would override state law by forcing every state (except Illinois and Wisconsin) to accept the carrying of loaded, concealed firearms by non-residents of their state, even if those persons are legally barred from possessing guns in that state.
Under this proposal, states would be forced to recognize all concealed weapons permits -- even if the requirements for out-of-state permit-holders fall well below their own.
Take training requirements, for example. Some states, like Mississippi and Georgia, require no training at all for the carrying of concealed weapons. Texas, by contrast, requires at least 10 hours of range time before the Lone Star State issues a permit. States like Texas would see their standards gutted under Sen. Thune's plan.
Also, states that currently allow relatively few out-of-state visitors to carry concealed weapons within their borders - such as Oregon, Maine and Nebraska - will be negatively impacted by Sen. Thune's amendment.
Under the dangerous provisions of the Thune Amendment, a resident of a state with tight restrictions on concealed weapons who could not qualify for a concealed weapons permit under their own state law, could now receive a non-resident permit from another state with a lower threshold, and police in their state of residence would be forced to honor that permit.
Why does all this matter? You could be forced by Congress to tolerate dangerous people in your neighborhood armed with concealed weapons and legal permits to carry them -- permits that were issued by other states with weak or non-existent safety requirements.
Gun pushers, in response, often extol the virtues of permit-holders regardless of the requirements they have to (or don't have to) meet, as if they were amateur police officers, claiming that they're all "law-abiding citizens" we can trust to carry their loaded handguns wherever they want -- from college classrooms to airports.
The real world is different. The fact is that too many gun owners with concealed carry permits are not "law-abiding citizens" at all.
* For example, there is Richard Poplawski, the white supremacist armed with an AK-47 who allegedly murdered three Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania police officers this past April on his front porch. Poplawski has been charged with three counts of homicide, aggravated assault, and a weapons violation. He was a concealed carry permit-holder.
* Perhaps you also recall Michael McLendon. He was the "suicide shooter" who went on a rampage through the small towns of Kinson and Samson, Alabama this past March, murdering 10 people before killing himself. He too was a concealed carry permit-holder.
* You likely do not know the name Michael Iheme. A year ago, he was charged with first-degree murder in the shooting death of his wife, Anthonia, in St. Louis Park, Minnesota. This past February, he was found guilty of second-degree murder. Anthonia Iheme had an active restraining order against her husband due to an alleged history of domestic abuse. After shooting his wife, Michael Iheme called 911 and said, "I have killed the woman that mess my life up [sic]...." He was a concealed carry permit-holder, as well.
* Then there is James Patrick Wonder. Wonder was charged last August with the first-degree murder of Donald Pettit - a federal agent with U.S. Customs and Border Protection - in Pembroke Pines, Florida. Wonder reportedly shot Pettit in the head in front of Pettit's twelve-year-old daughter. Wonder was also a concealed carry permit-holder.
* And according to reporting released just today, there is the case of Darryl Inman who pleaded guilty to felony charges of pointing a handgun at fellow motorists during a road rage incident in Edmond, Oklahoma. Inman has been ordered to pay his victims $500 to cover counseling costs and lost wages, and is reportedly serving a 10-month deferred sentence with anger management classes. He has also been ordered to forfeit his firearms, as well as his permit to carry a concealed handgun for life.
As a spokesperson for the Edmond Police Department said, "You can have a license to carry a gun. That does not give you a license to threaten people. You can't pull a gun out and wave it at somebody in a threatening way."
In fact, the Oklahoma County District Attorney handled the case personally, in part, because he said, "I felt it was another concealed carry license incident that crossed the line for self-defense."
There are hundreds of other examples like these listed here and here, with new ones being reported every week. Dangerous people have concealed carry permits who shouldn't be allowed near a handgun, much less be given permission to carry one anywhere in the country.
The Brady Campaign has prepared a fact sheet with helpful information that details the problems with Thune's Amendment.
Sen. Thune's amendment would endanger public safety, put law enforcement at risk, and trample states' rights to make their own gun laws. We encourage all who are concerned about this to contact your Senator today to help ensure that a dangerous proposal like this does not become the law of the land.
(Note to readers: This entry, along with past entries, has been co-posted on bradycampaign.org/blog and the Huffington Post.)
Paul Helmke: Senate To Vote On Gutting State Requirements For Carrying Guns
NRA 2AF IDPA
Tactical Pistol Instructor
July 17th, 2009 05:49 PM
I don't understand.....are these your feelings or are you posting Brady Bunch blatherings??? Just wondering....
Evil triumphs when good men do nothing! Edmond Burke
Where the people fear the government, there is tyranny. Where the government fears the people, there is liberty! Benjamin Franklin
THIS IS THE PRIMARY REASON WE HAVE THE 2ND AMENDMENT!!!
July 17th, 2009 05:53 PM
Hehe, if they only knew the truth about the training requirements for CCW they'd really freak. If they only knew the truth about most LEO's and their skill at arms they'd have a complete breakdown and be reduced to ... nevermind, they already are. Most states honor other state's permits anyway. Once again they fail to recognize that someone intent on crime doesn't care about laws anyway.
Actual text "To amend chapter 44 of title 18, United States Code, to allow citizens who have concealed carry permits from the State in which they reside to carry concealed firearms in another State that grants concealed carry permits, if the individual complies with the laws of the State". That doesn't allow criminals to carry.
July 17th, 2009 05:54 PM
Sarah Brady blah blah blah guns blah blah blah guns
Don't believe what you hear and only half of what you see!
July 17th, 2009 06:00 PM
I just had to read this while I was taking a drink of dr pepper... almost came out my nose.
July 17th, 2009 06:02 PM
I think my title says it all. "Brady Spin".
Originally Posted by mapriceak
The liberal writer is cherry picking a handful of CCW criminals to smear the millions of law-abiding Americans who carry handguns for self-defense every day.
If this gets circulated as a press release, warm up your keyboards and explain the benefits to all citizens of CCW to any anti-gun newspapers in your area.
My suggestion is to notify politically saavy people in your local areas to show your senators that you support the amendment and you will not support any senator who helps to kill it.
I guess you have to weigh your own philosophy of states' rights vs federal rights. Do you want federal legislation to enable carry in 48 states to anyone with a CCW permit? Note that in the amendment, Wisconsin and Illinois are exempt.
NRA 2AF IDPA
Tactical Pistol Instructor
July 17th, 2009 06:07 PM
If that's not a spin, I don't know what is. The bill doesn't say that Texas has to change it's requirements. My understanding is that it would force them to recognize a traveler thru their state has the same right to self defense that their own residents have.
Texas, by contrast, requires at least 10 hours of range time before the Lone Star State issues a permit. States like Texas would see their standards gutted under Sen. Thune's plan.
"Run for your life from the man who tells you that money is evil. That sentence is the leper's bell of an approaching looter. So long as men live together on earth and need means to deal with one another-their only substitute, if they abandon money, is the muzzle of a gun."
Who is John Galt?
July 17th, 2009 07:05 PM
The big flaw I see in it is that Illinois and Wisconsin are left out. Those two states should be required to recognize the permits of the other 48. Also, this amendment will prevent states like Nevada from constantly changing their mind on which state's permit they'll recognize and which they won't. Your permit might be good in Nevada one day and not the next.
"First gallant South Carolina nobly made the stand."
Edge of Darkness
July 17th, 2009 07:15 PM
Originally Posted by automatic slim
The last Blood Moon Tetrad for this millennium starts in April 2014 and ends in September 2015...according to NASA.
Certified Glock Armorer
NRA Life Member[/B]
July 17th, 2009 07:16 PM
So, it's another affront to the Second Amendment to my way of thinking; considering the Second Amendment makes no mention of any government entity "granting" permission. Nor does it discriminate with regards to who can keep and bear arms.
Seems to me that Thune might have a terminal case of anal retinitis.
"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups"
July 17th, 2009 08:35 PM
on this bill, I do not care.
on one hand I do not want the feds getting there fingers in this topic at all.
it is a stat issue.
on the other hand, it would be nice to go through any state.
(untell the feds change there requirments)
"I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution, which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents." -1792, James Madison
There are always too many Democratic, Republican and never enough U.S. congressmen.
July 17th, 2009 09:03 PM
I think I'll ask the Brady Campaign to post the names of all the law-abiding citizens who were murdered by non-CCW holders, but that would take up a tad more than 5-6 lines.
Can you imagine the outrage if I said something along the lines of "the pro-amnesty crowd likes to claim most undocumented workers are 'law-abiding, hard-working people,' but consider this..." and then went on to list, oh, about 100 examples of illegal aliens killing people. They would accuse me of being a bigot who is smearing 20 million people over the actions of a relatively small few.
However, liberals aren't known for recognizing their own hypocrisy. I do have some reservations about the federal government intruding on the states, but I guess that train left the station a loooong time ago.
July 17th, 2009 09:21 PM
You could make it easier on yourself and just list all the police officers that have been killed by illegals.. Still quite a list though..
Originally Posted by Holger
July 17th, 2009 09:36 PM
This would make an excellent letter, IMHO.
Originally Posted by Holger
Btw, Is there a computer expert on the board who could devise an email spray program to editors of newspapers all over? Or even the big city liberal rags?
Letters like this one could spray out all over the country. Heck, if the antis could do it, why not us?
NRA 2AF IDPA
Tactical Pistol Instructor
July 17th, 2009 09:38 PM
Brady , finding a "few" incidents of ccw abuse reminds me of a thread I was on going back and forth with an anti. ( I know, why do I even try )...He was saying the same thing about not all permit holders are law abiding, and he threw these stats at me....
About 215,000 Texans are currently licensed to carry concealed weapons. The state concedes that more than 400 were licensed despite prior convictions, and more than 3,000 other licensees have since been arrested.
Then I broke it down to this....
General poulation in 2006 in Texas - population of approximately 23.5 million, 61,539 total convictions = conviction rate of 0.262%.
CHL population in 2006 in Texas - population of approximately 260,000, 140 total convictions = conviction rate of 0.054%.
So CHL holders are about 5 times less likely to commit a crime than the average person walking around on the street.
He didnt have anything to say about it. They pick a few bad apples and run with it...Show me ONE law, just one, that a few idiots aren't going to abuse.......
Prepare for the worst and hope it never happens
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