Sounds like it was fun.
This is a discussion on More long-winded BS--America the Beautiful, a trip report within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Took a little trip this month. I drove my dad out to see some relatives scattered all over this great land. Wanted to mention a ...
Took a little trip this month. I drove my dad out to see some relatives scattered all over this great land. Wanted to mention a few items that may be of interest to some hermit somewhere who has nothing to do. I'll try to be brief.
Note: a few items concern open carry, but I posted the thread in this forum since most issues concern either concealed carry or something different. Please don't argue about open carry in this forum.
Rented a pickup, departed St. Louis. About an hour after leaving, while cruising west on I-70 at a high rate of speed, I noticed in my rearview mirror the bedliner was raising up and getting ready to go into orbit. I pulled over an noticed some of the fasteners were missing, and someone had taped the bedliner to the bed... and the tape had come loose.
I had no tape, and I'm in the middle of cattle pastures. Fortunately, I had a toolbox full of 60 pounds of ammo, so I placed that at the rear of the bedliner and started driving.
It held, and I pulled into Columbia, MO, with the intention of going to Lowes and getting more duct tape. I thought I might as well open carry, as I have been assured Columbia is open carry.
As I pulled off the highway, I saw another of the company's rent-a-car offices, so I was able to dump the bedliner there.
Not much more about MO except lots of Left-Lane-Losers, those drivers that get in the left lane and stay there even when no drivers are in the right lane.
I did not give anyone the high-one, although several were summa-cum-fn-laude candidates.
Accepts MO's CCW permit, but they have several more stringent CCW laws that are critical to follow, such as not carrying into posted places, and keeping out of state-owned business (or something like that).
Tried to meet up with ICTsnub and Mrs. ICTsnub, but I got our wires crossed. Will try again on my return trip.
I had forgotten how beautiful America was: in SE Kansas, there are places one can look in all directions and only see green--no buildings, nothing man-made except the road and maybe a barbed-wire fence or two. Beautiful, absolutely beautiful. I gotta get out of the city more often.
Accepts MO's CCW. No change. However, no open carry in the car.
Well, I took my brother's "shortcut" drove and drove, and eventually encountered a "Road Closed" sign. I stopped, knocked on some farmer's door, and asked him how I could get to Highway 81. He laughed at me. Guess I was a long ways off. This shortcut sucked. I backtracked and eventually made it to my first stop around midnight.
What stood out to me (other than the miniature highway sign that was ABOVE the road next to the road name, rather than a big sign BESIDE the road where it is everywhere else in America ) were the radio adds for condom use. Not criticizing, just saying it's something I don't hear in St. Louis.
Accepts MO's CCW. Also has some great laws about open carry in a vehicle even for those without a CCW permit.
Not much else to report. The stockyards are still there, not too smelly this time.
Accepts MO's CCW, but can only have 1 concealed carry gun. So as I got to the border, I uncovered 1 of my guns in order to be legal. I could have left them both concealed and no one would ever have known, but I was trying to obey ALL the CCW laws on this trip.
First gas stop at Santa Rosa: filled at the pump, no one noticed.
Next gas stop at Socorro: filled at the pump, then the pump tells me I have to see the attendant. So off I go. A dozen people inside, I'm in my cool rays, so I can see their eyes but they can't see mine.
I'm in line to pay and this little 8-year-old girl walks up to me and starts telling me she's saving money to buy a radio. I'm waiting for a sales pitch. Then she says she's keeping her money in her purse which is slung over her shoulder, which she pats.
When I finally realize she isn't selling anything, but rather practicing her bad habit of telling strangers she has money on her, I take it upon myself to offer her some worldly advice. I tell her it's not a good idea to tell people you have money on you because someone may try to take it from you.
She looks at me with her big brown eyes and says, "You wouldn't take my money from me, would you?" I said (with her Grandma now listening attentively to the conversation), "No, I wouldn't, but some bad people might."
I congratulated her on her savings, and finally their turn in line came. They paid and left, then I paid and left.
No one in the store, with the possible exception of a guy to my 4 o'clock that I couldn't watch his eyes, even looked at my gun. Coincidentally, I was wearing a light-colored shirt that day, and my black gun and black holster stood out like... well, a black gun and holster on top of a light shirt. I walked out of the store dumbfounded that they were so unobservant.
Next stop on down the road was a store. Went in, tried to keep my gun out of view just to avoid a MWAG call, but when I left I had to turn my gun in full view of the two employees.
Neither one saw anything. I know this because later in the week I asked an employee about it. She's okay with it--she's the one who let me shoot her Glock fo-tay last year.
The place where we were staying has been having trouble with coyotes coming up into the yard, and also approaching people in the daytime. Not good. So we went coyote hunting one day. I borrowed a .204 rifle for the hike, but we didn't see any coyotes. Sweet shooting rifle, with a good scope and a trigger job.
I could hear the coyotes at night, though, lots of them. I slept out back, and I wonder how many yotes saw me but remained hidden in the darkness. The aggressive yotes will have to go.
Accepts MO's CCW permit with no restrictions.
Didn't see much except portions of the petrified forest that were near the highway. Not too many people in the eastern part of the state.
Planned to stay with a cousin, but just before we arrived we were informed they had other family with kids staying there, so they had rented us a room at the Sante Fe Casino.
About an hour after check-in, I'm resting on the bed and hear a knock at the door.
Voice: "Maintenance, I have a bulb for you."
Me: "What bulb?"
Voice: "I don't know."
By this time I'm looking through the peephole with a .45 in hand, but it's a tiny peephole and the hallway light is right above it so I can't see much. I told him, "No thanks" and he went away.
I'm already concerned about security in this hotel because the hotel door
In other words, there is no way to lock the door from inside, other than the lock which can be opened with a keycard.
- Has no inside chain
- Has no inside door bar that goes over another metal object to prevent the door from being opened more than an inch or two
- Has no little metal gizmo that keeps the door from being opened at all
I was curious about the maintenance guy, so I called the front desk and asked if they had sent a maintenance guy up. "No, we haven't." So I asked to be transferred to security, and explained what had happened.
Now, I will admit to being suspicious and untrusting of strangers, especially those knocking on my door. He may well have been a maintenance man. But I wasn't in the mood to be opening my door to anyone.
Anyway, a few minutes later a hotel security officer came to my door. Now before he came, I faced a decision: I had a t-shirt on and my .45 OWB, clearly visible. I could either answer the door like that, cover up totally, or split the difference with an unbuttoned shirt. I realize I could have avoided any gun issues with the security officer if I concealed, but... all I can say in my defense is that I didn't feel I should have to hide anything. Yeh, I could have avoided what was coming, but that was my mindset at the time.
So I put on a shirt but left it unbuttoned, with the gun showing an inch or two.
The officer knocks, I answer, and tell him what happened. I can give no description because the peephole sucked. I also tell him I had tried to verify the knock by calling maintenance, but no one answered. So after a couple minutes, the officer prepares to leave.
Then he notices my gun.
Officer: "Is that a gun?"
He asks for some I.D., and then asks a few more questions to determine if I am legally carrying. Then he says:
Officer: "We prefer you leave it at the front desk."
Me: "Well, actually this hotel is considered my home at the moment, and I am allowed to have a gun in my home." (I don't know if that is true, but at the time I thought it was true.)
Officer: "Well, we'd like you to register it at the front desk when you walk around."
Me: "I know the laws of Nevada. I know where I can open carry. I don't plan to do that, though. I just want a peaceful night here in Vegas, and then in the morning we are gone."
Officer: "Yes, but we'd like you to register your gun and leave it at the front desk when you walk around."
Me: "I know the laws of Nevada. I know where I can open carry. I don't plan to do that, but I know where I am allowed to carry a gun."
Officer: "Yes, but... blah blah blah."
He eventually left, hoping I would register my gun at the front desk, while I knew full well that wasn't going to happen.
About 3 hours later we decide to go down and eat in the casino with my cousins who have arrived. Now I face a quandry I haven't prepared for: what to do with our guns (10) that we have brought along on our trip. Hey, I had several to check out, plus some of our relatives shoot when we get together.
I had planned to keep them at my cousin's house, but couldn't now because of the kids.
Didn't want to leave them in the truck because I didn't have a car safe big enough for 10. Didn't even bring a car safe.
Didn't want to leave them in the room, which I was rapidly losing confidence in as a safe place.
Darn sure wasn't going to leave them at the front desk for strangers to fondle them.
Soooooo, I began trying to see how many I could conceal with the help of my bag of holsters I had brought. Here is how I concealed them:
- Large 9mm in dual-holster SmartCarry
- Another large 9mm in other holster of SmartCarry
- Single-stack 9mm in security pouch of SmartCarry
- Snub in left front pocket
- Another snub in right front pocket
- .45 in appendix OWB
- Medium 9mm in OWB at 3:30
- Dad's .44 magnum with 8" barrel (this was the hard one) in a Truss shoulder holster. The barrel went all the way down to my waist
- 9mm subcompact in a handcuff holster in the Truss. Printed a bit, so I put the hotel's coupon booklet in my shirt front pocket, and it covered the bump well.
- Keltec .380 in the other Truss handcuff holster
I also concealed a spare mag and my flashlight in two of the Truss's 4 spare mag pockets. I was wearing an untucked shirt one size too big, and black jeans that were loose in the trunk.
The .44 mag grip stuck into my arm so much I couldn't swing my arm naturally. I felt MUCH more conspicuous than my original Wally World walk. So we went on to the buffet, and requested a seat near the food because not all of our party could walk well. This worked out great for me. I'd grab a plate with my left hand, which gave me an excuse for not swinging it naturally. When I needed to reach the rear food bins, I'd switch the plate to my right hand so the holsters on my right wouldn't show as I stretched to dip food.
I was a little stiff when sitting, but no stiffer than some of the elderly patrons. Nobody paid any attention that I could tell. Sitting in a booth with my back to a wall helped a lot. The only danger time was when I would go get more food.
So we finished, and someone suggested going over to the bar. I had not forseen this situation, so I had not researched the legality of me being in the bar. I declined, saying I wasn't sure I'd be legal. My cousin's hubby picked up on that right away, and didn't seem fazed.
So we said our goodbyes and I headed up to the room. The casino is so huge that I couldn't find the way we came down. I wandered around, and soon I found myself approaching the security officers' station, with my favorite security officer watching the floor. Too late to turn around, I looked the other way as we walked past. (I had previously changed shirts in the hope that perhaps he wouldn't recognize me so easily). Seemed to work, but it also helped that he was on the phone. We walked about 3' in front of him but he didn't stop me or even speak.
I realize some will have some negative thoughts about carrying 10 guns down to the casino. Some will undoubtedly accuse me of several things. So I thought I would save some of the keyboard commandos some typing and time by going ahead and listing a few of the expected responses. Here are some that I expect:
grady, you are
- a liar
- an idiot
- an LEO wannabe
- a Rambo wannabe
- seeking attention
- a moron
Okay, now that that's out of the way... actually, the only ones who know my true motives are those who accepted what I said earlier about why I chose to carry 10 guns concealed: because I didn't want them stolen or fondled by strangers. I came to Vegas with 10 guns, and I wanted to leave Vegas with 10 guns.
I was still curious about the knock from the "maintenance guy", so I asked a maid if the housekeepers ever call directly to maintenance without the front desk knowing about it. Since I don't speak whatever language she was speaking, communication was a bit difficult. When she figured out I was concerned about a possible robbery attempt, she laughed. I asked her if she had ever heard of a hotel robbery, and she said not at this hotel (yeah, right). I was not left feeling warm and fuzzy with her current-events awareness and/or her truthfulness.
Another maid, this one better versed in English, assured me that the maids often call maintenance directly without involving the front desk because "they usually hire the blonde bimbos for the front desk, and they'll just screw it up if we get them involved." So perhaps the maintenance guy was legit. We did have one bulb out of nine that was out. But still, I don't think it's good practice to open a hotel door to someone claiming to be from the hotel, when the hotel front desk knows nothing about them. I'll keep my paranoia, thank you.
Vegas was 112, but we weren't out in it hardly at all.
We left the next morning with no other contact from Mr. Register-your-guns-and-let-us-keep-them-for-you security officer.
Note: I not sure at the moment of Nevada's laws, and I'm too tired to look them up for verification. At the time, I was operating from my possibly-faulty memory. I'll research the laws and print them out if I go to Nevada again.
Cali doesn't accept MO's CCW permit, so I drove 100 miles extra to avoid crossing into Cali. In addition, I probably would have been a criminal even if I had locked all the guns in the trunk (oops, no trunk because it's a truck) because I had several mags that held much more than 10. No offense to any Californians, but Cali doesn't get any of my trip money.
Doesn't accept MO's CCW permit, so I have to open carry.
Gassed up just before crossing into Oregon in order to minimize my open-carry gas stops. Visited relatives for several days without going out in public. Just before we left, I had to get gas. Oregon has a mandatory attendant-pump rule, meaning I can't fill up my tank. No problem. Makes it easy to not have to step out of the car. I was OCing in the car, but no one would notice unless they got real close. Sounds good in theory, but the attendant had a problem with my card and said I had to come inside.
Choices: conceal (illegal), put one away and open carry one, or open carry two. As it was late at night, and only one car around, I decided to just OC two guns into the store, sign the ticket, and get out of Dodge before any police could arrive if the attendant panicked. I don't know if the attendant noticed my guns or not. The other customer didn't.
Cousin 1: Owns a Rossi snub. She says it empowers her. She says if someone tries to rape her, she'll shoot to stop the threat. (Edited by me.) She had no holster, but I happened to have one in my holster bag that fit perfectly. Everyone needs at least one good holster.
Cousin 2: Owns a Ruger auto. He has the old mags that are welded shut at the bottom. Don't know how old they are, so I'm going to buy him a couple of the newer mags that have replaceable springs, plus a new recoil spring. He didn't have a holster either, but I had a generic one that fit the Ruger, so I gave it to him.
No other gun issues.
Accepts MO's CCW permit. No issues.
Accepts MO's CCW permit. No issues.
Doesn't accept MO's CCW permit. Open carry is okay.
The only issue was when getting gas once. I ran out of time preparing for this trip, so I hadn't printed out all the state laws like I usually did. When I got to Wyoming several days into the trip, I wasn't 100% sure of the OC/CC laws. I made the best decision I could, and went with it. Add one item to my Lessons Learned file.
Stayed the night in Green River and watched Friday Night Fights on ESPN. Got up early and left. I believe I donated my small flashlight to the hotel by forgetting it in the bed when we left. Too early and no coffee. Oh well, it was a cheapo. Time to upgrade anyway.
Accepts MO's CCW permit. No issues.
Driving down the highway, not watching for cops because I was trying to watch my speed. Heard a noise to my left, looked out and saw a Kansas State Trooper pointing at me to pull over. He also pulls over the white Caddy that just passed me. I wasn't sure which states required notification, so on this trip I planned to notify any LEO who stopped me, which I did. He thanked me for notifying him, and asked where my weapon was. "One on my right hip, and one on my left." He said he clocked me at 82 as I passed another car, but didn't reclock me after I pulled back into the right lane.
After he finished writing, the other car left. Then the trooper came back to my car. He hinted that if he hadn't written her a ticket (for 84) he would have let me go with a warning, but since he had already decided to give us both a ticket when pulling us over, he didn't think it would be fair to write her a ticket and not me. So he gave me a ticket. However, he reduced the speed to 80 because I had told him I was trying to keep it at 79-80. This caused it to be a non-moving violation which wouldn't affect my insurance according to him.
Then he proceeds to tell me he believes in CCW and the 2nd amendment. He believes more people should carry. He believes everyone who is competent, trained, and willing to use a gun if needed should carry. He was very pleasant and professional. While I would obviously have preferred a warning, I certainly deserved the ticket. Because I think this guy is a quality LEO and I would also like to see pro-CCW troopers promoted to positions of greater authority, I plan to write his supervisor and commend the trooper for his courtesy and professionalism. Yeh, I deserved that ticket all the way. Plus 1,000 more. On this trip alone.
Meeting up with a DC member
Met up with ICTsnub and Mrs. ICTsnub for coffee, tea, and discussions about guns. Thanks, ICTsnub, for taking the time to meet with me. You are just as kind in person as you are on the net, and Mrs. ICTsnub treated me like an old friend. I thoroughly enjoyed our visit. Hope you are successful in your newest search for another gun for Mrs. ICTsnub.
Kansas City gunshop
Stopped at a gunshop on the way through KC. I met a pleasant gun-totin' lass, and we chatted a bit.
Sometimes you meet someone for the first time, and it feels like you've known them for a long time.
Sometimes you meet someone, maybe even just once, and they leave a lasting mark on your life. If you're fortunate, it's a good mark.
Thanks, Patti, for making such a positive impact on my life. It was a pleasure meeting you. The time went by too quick.
The most dangerous part of the entire trip occurred when I was about 20 minutes from home... some stupid LLL wanting to get all pissy when I passed him on the right. He backed his dumbself off, so it turned into a non-event.
PRINT OUT the state gun laws instead of relying on my faulty memory. I've done this before, and highlighted unique stuff for quick reference, but his time my procrastination caught up with me.
RESEARCH AND PRINT OUT THE KNIFE LAWS. I took my knives off in Vegas for the duration of the trip because I had forgotten to research the knife laws. I've seen some other states' knife laws that could make me a criminal depending on which of my knives I was carrying. I totally forgot to research them before the trip.
USE CRUISE CONTROL more often, and pay better attention to the speed limits. duh.
We are very fortunate to live in this great country, at least for now. I am amazed at the vastness and the different choices we have concerning where to live. I saw no accidents in 5,000+ miles. The highways we travelled are generally in very good shape.
How fortunate I am to be an American and to be able to travel throughout this great land.
How right it is to be able to defend oneself and one's family while traveling through this vast land. Curses on any politician who tries to take those rights away from us.
Sounds like it was fun.
Guns don't kill people.
Gaping wounds in vital organs do.
NRA Life Member
Colt M1911A1 / H&K USP45
Sounds like a good trip. Thanks for telling us about it.
If someone ever makes a pro-gun movie, the scene of you at the buffet CCing 10 guns at one time, HAS to be in that movie.
BTW- I just knew a "restaurant" scenario would be in your post.
Helpful hints on pushing back and strengthening the 2A:
You have been taking lessons from the Mall Ninja. That was good for an early morning chuckle. I would have paid to see that scene at the casino
2A is not negotiable
Great post: Do you get in the Guinness Book of Records for 10? You need some ankle holsters and a belly band so you can go for 15.
Sounds like a nice trip... Glad everything worked out for you.
10 guns at once....You are the terminator. LOL
I did not think your post was "long winded BS" at all. I thoroughly enjoyed it. Thanks for sharing.
"Skin that smokewagon!".
I actually liked it, learned a bit about traveling with weapons. Like never bring more then your party can carry at one time. It makes things so much easier, or bring a safe that can fit all the weapons.
I know not what this "overkill" means.
Honing the knives, Cleaning the longguns, Stocking up ammo.
First, for speeding. It's a pet peeve of mine because I remember the national 55mph speed limit and I don't want to give the Feds any excuse to reinstate it.
Chastising officially out of the way, congratulations on an almost uneventful trip. I won't try and give you any legal advice, but since we'd like you to come back and visit Kansas again, you can check out Changes to Concealed Carry Law after the passage of HB 2528 on the KS AG's web site in reference to your statement:
I believe you'll find that, other than Federal facilities, you are good to go at any location that isn't posted. You are correct in that you do not want to carry past a sign. In Kansas, that's an immediate crime.Accepts MO's CCW permit, but they have several more stringent CCW laws that are critical to follow, such as not carrying into posted places, and keeping out of state-owned business (or something like that).
I would also like to thank you for a good laugh to start out the day. Your description of your efforts to conceal 10 guns had me .
I was just curious if this might be the Patti that you met at the gun shop in KS?
BTW, can you tell me what a LLL is?
Glad you got home safe.... some stupid LLL wanting to get all pissy when I passed him on the right.
Sig 239 SAS 40 S&W / Sig 239 9mm / Kahr PM-9 / Walther PPS .40 / Sig P-245 / Ruger LCP
Beretta Tomcat / Walther PPK / BDA 380 / Taurus 85 / Kel-Tec PF-9 / Am. Derringer 357
NRA Life Member
My Web Site
That was a great read, Grady.
"The pistol, learn it well, carry it always ..." ~ Jeff Cooper
"Terrorists: They hated you yesterday, they hate you today, and they will hate you tomorrow.
End the cycle of hatred, donít give them a tomorrow."
10 guns at once...wow! Imagine what the prosecutor would say
Were they all loaded and good to go?
I am about to leave on a trip of my own...through the PRNY, all guns are locked in the trunk
"Trust in God with hand on sword" -Inscription on my family's coat of arms from medieval England
---Carry options: G26/MTAC, PF9/MiniTuck, PPK/Pocket, USP40/OWB---
---NOTE: I am not an expert. If I ever start acting like a know-it-all, please call me on it immediately. ---
Great post. I'd have bought you a coffee, but I doubt that would have tempted you to come to Cali.
God is love (1 John 4:8)