There are several threads running on this bill already.
This is a discussion on Article claims permit holders have killed 7 cops within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; By JIM ABRAMS, Associated Press Writer Jim Abrams, Associated Press Writer 1 hr 24 mins ago WASHINGTON Gun control and gun rights advocates ...
By JIM ABRAMS, Associated Press Writer Jim Abrams, Associated Press Writer 1 hr 24 mins ago
WASHINGTON Gun control and gun rights advocates are heading for another clash with a Senate vote on a measure that would allow people with concealed weapons permits to carry those hidden weapons into other states.
Backers, led by Sen. John Thune, R-S.D., say truckers and others with concealed weapons permits should be able to protect themselves when they cross into other states. Opponents say the measure would force states with strict procedures for getting permits to accept permits from states with more lax laws.
The Senate has scheduled a vote Wednesday on the measure, which Thune offered as an amendment to a major defense policy bill. Under an agreement reached among Senate leaders, 60 votes will be needed to approve the amendment.
The vote comes a day after the Senate completed what is probably the most controversial issue connected to the defense bill, voting 58-40 to eliminate $1.75 billion in the $680 billion bill that had been set aside for building more F-22 fighters. President Barack Obama and Defense Secretary Robert Gates campaigned hard for removing the money, saying the Pentagon had enough F-22s and the money could be spent on more pressing defense needs.
The gun proposal would make concealed weapons permits from one state valid in other states as long as the person obeys the laws of other states, such as weapons bans in certain localities. It does not establish national standards for concealed weapons permits and would not allow those with permits to carry weapons into Wisconsin and Illinois, the two states that do not have concealed weapons laws.
"Law-abiding South Dakotans should be able to exercise the right to bear arms in states with similar regulations on concealed firearms," Thune said. "My legislation enables citizens to protect themselves while respecting individual state firearms laws."
National Rifle Association chief lobbyist Chris W. Cox said the last two decades have shown a strong shift toward gun rights laws. "We believe it's time for Congress to acknowledge these changes and respect the right of self-defense, and the right of self-defense does not stop at state lines," he said.
Gun control groups were strongly in opposition.
Concealed handgun permit holders killed at least seven police officers and 44 private citizens during a two-year period ending in April, according to a study by the Violence Policy Center. "It is beyond irrational for Congress to vote to expand the reach of these deadly laws," said the center's legislative director, Kristen Rand.
Sen. Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y., said the bill would "incite a dangerous race to the bottom in our nation's gun laws." He said his own state, which has strict gun control laws, would have to accept concealed weapons permits from states such as Arizona, which issues permits to people with drinking problems, or Alaska, where people with violent misdemeanor convictions can get permits.
"Folks in Minot, N.D., and New York are going to have different conceptions about what's right for their locality," said Jim Kessler, vice president for policy at Third Way, a centrist think tank that supports gun rights. "In some states you have to show a real need" to get a permit, he said. "In other states you have to show that you can stand on two feet."
So far this year gun rights advocates have had the clear advantage in Congress. They managed to attach a provision to a credit card bill signed into law that restores the right to carry loaded firearms in national parks, and coupled a Senate vote giving the District of Columbia a vote in the House with a provision effectively ending the district's tough gun control laws.
House Democratic leaders, unable to detach the two issues without losing the support of pro-gun Democrats, abandoned attempts to pass the D.C. vote bill.
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Does anyone have details on the claim that permit holders have killed 7 police officers in 2 years???????????
Seems kind of unbelievable to me..........
There are several threads running on this bill already.
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I didn't see the above claim in the other posts.....sorry if this has already been beat to death.......
How many cops have been protected by permit holders?
Last edited by gunthorp; July 22nd, 2009 at 07:12 PM.
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Ahhh, what an awful dream. Ones and zeros everywhere... and I thought I saw a two.
It might well be seven. It might well be ten. Out of a couple million carriers across the U.S. In every large group of people, you'll always flush out a few felons. But to scrap a concept based on a 0.00005% problem is absolutely throwing the baby out with the bath water. Misguided, at best.
Somehow I find the claim not believable, especially as it applies to police officers being killed, and I would like to see more details, explanation, etc. For example, were there 7 different incidents, or multiple shootings in one bad incident. It makes a difference, because the percent of BG license holders would be even lower if the shootings involved only one or two separate incidents.
Apparently the scumbag in Pennsylvania who ambushed the LEOs there had a PA permit; that would put, what, three LEO deaths in a single incident...? I have no confirmation of this, of course, but I have seen that case specifically identified in one of the screeds against the Thune bill.
ETA: Of course, this represents a clear cherry-picking of statistics. It is relevant in the sense that it allows for the occasional BG passing the CCW requirements in whatever state. On the other hand, the PA shooter, Poplawski, used an AK-47, and the shooting took place at his residence---that is, the shootings had nothing to do with the right to carry a concealed handgun. I haven't been able to determine from the news stories if the AK-47 (which was described as an "automatic" weapon either by a witness or by the reporter misinterpreting said witness) was lawfully owned or not. If not, then it even further undermines the argument against CCW carriers, because it then reduces to the story: "Illegal gun used in crime."
Last edited by kazzaerexys; July 22nd, 2009 at 12:32 PM. Reason: Additional info.
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My Va permit is valid in almost every state now. Don't the anti's know this?
Don't believe what you hear and only half of what you see!
The supposed "study" was just grabbing headlines from news reports. And, golly, our news media "never" (note: extreme sarcasm intended) gets the facts wrong, do they?
This "study" holds about as much water as a screen door...
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In a statistics class I took in college our professor said, "I love statistics, I can make them say anything I want." He is right... except I wanted a "A" for him they said "C"!
7 LEO and 44 private citizens killed by CC permit holders in a 2 year period. How many LEO and private citizens have been killed by non-permit holders? I think safety is on the side of the permit holders.Concealed handgun permit holders killed at least seven police officers and 44 private citizens during a two-year period ending in April, according to a study by the Violence Policy Center.
"I think it's safe to say the Violence Policy Center had a political
agenda when they released their study. If you take a look at homicides
by permit holders in the period they cited and compare that with the
rest of the homicides in the U.S., a permit holder is 15 times less
likely to commit murder or non-negligent manslaughter than a
Anti-gun group embarrasses itself, again - alt.politics | Google Groups