our forefathers rolling in their graves - Page 2

our forefathers rolling in their graves

This is a discussion on our forefathers rolling in their graves within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Thanis I still think, overall, it was a BS vote, designed to give those in power on both sides of the issue ...

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  1. #16
    VIP Member Array Majorlk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanis View Post
    I still think, overall, it was a BS vote, designed to give those in power on both sides of the issue something to take home. I don't think the majority of the Rs and Ds who voted wanted anything more then a talking point to take back for future elections.
    I agree with you completely (now isn't THAT a surprise? )

    From the AP wire:

    "Senators voted for the measure, 58-39, but it fell short of the required 60 votes for approval, based on a procedural agreement between Senate leaders."

    IOW, the vote was rigged from the beginning!
    An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life. - Robert A. Heinlein


  2. #17
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    Prolly a blessing in disguise. F troop would love to administer something like this. Look how well they're intimidating honest citizens as it is. Maybe this will encourage more folks to join grass roots orgs to push for more reciprocity, castle, and stand your ground laws.
    Liberty, Property, or Death - Jonathan Gardner's powder horn inscription 1776

    Tu ne cede malis, sed contra audentior ito.
    ("Do not give in to evil but proceed ever more boldly against it.")
    -Virgil, Aeneid, vi, 95

  3. #18
    Member Array fatcat's Avatar
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    Well at least we were only 2 votes away. That is darn close especially considering a great many "yea" votes were from those Democrats we just voted in.

    I know this is overall negative, but I REALLY did not expect it to be this close.

    I wanted to punch my TV a few moments ago when Schmuck Screwmer D-NY was on the news saying how this "victory" just "saved countless lives". I'd like to kick two of those morons in the butt for voting no.

  4. #19
    Member Array fatcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Majorlk View Post
    I agree with you completely (now isn't THAT a surprise? )

    From the AP wire:

    "Senators voted for the measure, 58-39, but it fell short of the required 60 votes for approval, based on a procedural agreement between Senate leaders."

    IOW, the vote was rigged from the beginning!
    I'm not so sure about that because the anti crowd was counting on 44 no votes and they did not get it. The preliminary voting showed as many as 44 and 45 no votes, so a few of them votes the other way. The anti crowd was not counting on that.

  5. #20
    Member Array BigBear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanis View Post
    No, was not close at all.

    No one who voted one way or the other was at risk. This was written a certain way, so that it would 'look" close, but would not pass. This is a huge win for anti-gun. They get to make it look like it was close, every anti-gun from an anti-gun district just help re-elect themselves, and the pro-gun Ds know it, because it helped them in their pro-gun district look pro-gun. The Rs need anything they can get, and don't want to lose a seat in middle ground districts, and would not want this to pass, just want to show how they voted.

    Normally, a bill is written, to get as much support as possible. This was not. One simple word change, resident, in theory would have changed the outcome. Don't be fooled, this is one of those votes used to wind us up. Shame on (most of the Senate) Rs and Ds.

    I'm not questioning that the overall senate is pro-gun, I'm just stating the majority that are pro-gun (Rs & Ds) are only pro-gun because they want to keep their seat.
    Couldn't agree more.
    " In theory, reality and theory are the same. In reality, they are not."

    GLOCK G23, KAHR CW9, RUGER LCP, TAURUS PT92, TAURUS 689, MOSSY 500

    NRA member

  6. #21
    Member Array mrog71's Avatar
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    I'm hit or miss issue. I support the bill, however as it was writen, I see how it does infringe on state's rights.
    It may not be a popular opinioin on this board, but I think I agree with you. As written, it seems like it infringes on states rights. I have a ccw in AZ and am totally pro gun rights, etc., but any legislation where the federal government is forcing states to accept something they don't want sets a dangerous precedent that weakens states' rights. Better to have individual states with stupid laws (i.e. CA), where you can move to a state more to your liking, than to have stupid federal laws that apply to every state.

  7. #22
    Member Array Recon4Life2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrog71 View Post
    It may not be a popular opinioin on this board, but I think I agree with you. As written, it seems like it infringes on states rights. I have a ccw in AZ and am totally pro gun rights, etc., but any legislation where the federal government is forcing states to accept something they don't want sets a dangerous precedent that weakens states' rights. Better to have individual states with stupid laws (i.e. CA), where you can move to a state more to your liking, than to have stupid federal laws that apply to every state.

    I agree, don't move or go to a state with stupid gun laws. Don't support their economy, let them know where we stand. Yes it's sad that a RIGHT that is given to us under our Constitution, is more like a privilege. But until we are ready for the Federal Government to take a bigger role in what the requirements are to carry, let them stay out of it.

  8. #23
    Senior Member Array press1280's Avatar
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    I think they've been rolling in their graves for many years now, as needing a permit to carry a weapon is probably something they would not be happy about.
    Some news reports have said this bill could come up again since the vote was close. I wonder how close it actually was, since we all know these weasels use these votes as political cover.
    "The right of the whole people, old and young, men, women and boys, and not militia only, to keep and bear arms of every description, not such merely as are used by the militia, shall not be infringed, curtailed, or broken in upon, in the smallest degree..."
    Nunn v. State GA 1848

  9. #24
    Member Array ritepath's Avatar
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    Hopefully the feds will understand when the States start passing laws to ignore new federal gun laws....Hope the states tell DC to stuff it when BarryCo. get around to requesting new bans.

  10. #25
    Member Array torgo1968's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thanis View Post
    I think only applying reciprocity for resident permits would have helped the bill, and I believe it was purposely excluded, so pro-gun republicans and democrats could go home and quote their pro-gun record. I think it is all political BS, and both sides knew going in this had nothing to do with actually making a law. For most of the Senate (both the Rs and Ds) this was just a way to strengthen your base (pro-gun or anti-gun) depending what side their district agrees with.
    What are you talking about? The bill did only recognize resident permits. And most of the people who voted in favor of the bill have long histories of pro gun votes, they didn't need to put on a show for their constituents.

    Quote Originally Posted by Majorlk View Post
    I agree with you completely (now isn't THAT a surprise? )

    From the AP wire:

    "Senators voted for the measure, 58-39, but it fell short of the required 60 votes for approval, based on a procedural agreement between Senate leaders."

    IOW, the vote was rigged from the beginning!
    That doesn't mean the vote was rigged! Good lord people, do you have any idea how the Senate works? The procedural agreement goes something like this:

    Anti gun idiots: "Hey, if you try to pass that gun amendment, we will filibuster it."

    Pro gun people: "We will do our best to get the 60 votes to enact cloture, but if we can't, we agree to not make you actually get up and filibuster."

    That's it, nothing sinister. It's just that modern senators have become wusses when it comes to filibustering, so they agree that they won't do it if the cloture votes aren't there.

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