Inquiry about the "Bad LEO Experience" thread going on

This is a discussion on Inquiry about the "Bad LEO Experience" thread going on within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; + 1 to HOTGUNS Teachers have to maintain credibility with in their community....

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Thread: Inquiry about the "Bad LEO Experience" thread going on

  1. #16
    Senior Member Array usmc3169's Avatar
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    + 1 to HOTGUNS

    Teachers have to maintain credibility with in their community.
    "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

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  3. #17
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    You fit the description of someone who robbed the local store, but they discovered it wasn't you ?

    I wouldn't lie, but then.... you are also not obliged to tell them every thing either. Keep your personal info, just that.

  4. #18
    Senior Member Array rmarkob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRogue View Post
    You could say that it was a case of mistaken identity.

    (They mistook you for a criminal.)
    Good one. "They mistook me for somebody else. We cleared it up. No charges were filed."

    All true, with no other details required.
    Clinging to guns and God in PA...

  5. #19
    Distinguished Member Array MinistrMalic's Avatar
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    What are the pros and cons of each approach?

    Tell the truth:
    --best case: Get teachable moments from the issue
    --worst case: have to answer to the district, no charges filed, your union protects you, it all blows over but is a little stressful.

    Conceal it:
    --best case: The truth never comes out, but you stress about it a LOT.
    --worst case: The truth comes out (hello, public info police blotter), and you have to stand before a review board for a gun issue (which is not the issue) AND an integrity issue.

    JMO, but the worst case of hiding is SO far worse than the worst case of concealing the issue, and the best case is not too bad in either instance.

    Just tell the truth.

    Thanks Hot Guns for sticking to the point.
    "...whoever has no sword is to sell his coat and buy one." (Luke 22:36)
    Christianity and Self Defense from a Biblical Perspective

  6. #20
    Senior Member Array stanislaskasava's Avatar
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    There will be no teachable moments. The union will not protect him.

  7. #21
    Member Array compact's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by retsupt99 View Post
    Luckily I live in a small town...I wouldn't have to tell anyone as everyone would already know prior to my getting to work the next day.

    Apart from the fact that I don't really care about what anyone thinks, I have earned enough respect from my cohorts that I would probably be given the benefit of the doubt.
    I certainly would set the record straight, but as with life...many opinions are formed without the facts. Thus, my original statement, I don't really care much about what the think.

    I have shared a lot about CCing with our staff...they know clearly where I stand, and I have encouraged 9 of them to get their CCW permits in the last two years...2-3 more are already planning on getting theirs.
    Got to love rural FL.
    i like the way you think..

    As for the question at hand...I think if you are not in the wrong...the facts are on your side. If you don't do anything wrong...what can you do. I know it looks bad but the reality is what is most important.

    like someone said...when all else fails...it is what it is...and if it ain't nothin...its just that..

  8. #22
    VIP Member Array Guns and more's Avatar
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    "There was a bank robbery in the next town. My car matched the description and they pulled me over. Man was I scared until they found I had nothing to do with it."

    Why open Pandora's box?

  9. #23
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    What bank robbery?
    Why do people communicate? 1) To exchange information or 2) to effect a result. The best result is to exchange truthful information to the point of and not beyond the point of negative effect on one's career and right to self defense. If a colleague is so "knowledgeable" as to pursue the issue, then they should know when to break off the pursuit.
    This thread is more enlightening about the character of some teachers than about how to handle a mistake by a police officer that may result in a minor public humiliation. The cops are human. Don't lie, and don't get caught lying.
    Americans understood the right of self-preservation as permitting a citizen to repel force by force
    when the intervention of society... may be too late to prevent an injury.
    -Blackstone’s Commentaries 145–146, n. 42 (1803) in District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008)

  10. #24
    Member Array Zach and Holly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pistology View Post
    This thread is more enlightening about the character of some teachers than about how to handle a mistake by a police officer that may result in a minor public humiliation. The cops are human. Don't lie, and don't get caught lying.

    I'm simply looking for various viewpoints as this example entered my mind while reading the other thread. I hope you are not jumping to any conclusions about my character. If you are not a teacher, I hope you understand the severity of implications this situation could arise. Especially, in the extraordinarily liberal city of Eugene. I know you offered some witty remarks about what "liberal" means. I myself am a liberal. I'm simply a liberal who believes strongly in gun rights. Heh, don't hate me, defensivecarry.com!

    It's simple for outsiders looking in to simply proclaim "always tell the truth!!!". Of course that is the best answer. If I were in a different profession, I wouldn't even bat an eye lash. But this is dangerous ground where I live. And I VERY MUCH have a grip, Pistology.
    It is utterly illogical to believe that passing laws to reduce gun violence will be successful when those who are commiting the gun violence do not obey the law.

  11. #25
    Member Array Cycler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zach and Holly View Post
    It's simple for outsiders looking in to simply proclaim "always tell the truth!!!". Of course that is the best answer. If I were in a different profession, I wouldn't even bat an eye lash. But this is dangerous ground where I live. And I VERY MUCH have a grip, Pistology.
    The solution isn't necessarily to "always tell the truth", it's to "not lie" if you can all avoid it. I agree with those who've recommended sidestepping the issue by confronting it by saying that the cop made a mistake, all charges were dropped, I demanded an apology etc. and that because of the nature of the blatantly false accusation, you absolutely will not go into any details on this false charge.

    If you do lie about it and someone does find out what the false charge was and why, you'll be way worse off because now they know you're a liar. Not "think" you're a liar, they know it because you are. What else do you lie about I wonder...

    The right to carry is a winnable debate simply because it's the law and a right. I'm in a similar position where there are probably many anti-gunners in my field of work which keeps me from carrying often and I keep it a total secret with all but a few others that have CPLs - it kind of comes up some times. If someone does find out, I'll minimize and downplay the whole thing but lying can get you into much worse trouble.

    It's one thing to have to dig yourself out of the "I'm a teacher and I cary" hole and another entirely to dig yourself out of the "I'm a teacher and I cary and I'm a liar" hole.

  12. #26
    Member Array Zach and Holly's Avatar
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    Agreed, Cycler.
    It is utterly illogical to believe that passing laws to reduce gun violence will be successful when those who are commiting the gun violence do not obey the law.

  13. #27
    Distinguished Member Array Chaplain Scott's Avatar
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    Cycler makes some excellent points. You have NO moral obligation to tell other people your own private business. You can tell the truth without telling "the whole truth." If you were in court and swore under oath to tell the "whole truth, so help me God" then it would be a differnt matter. But as it is, tell them enough of the truth that you don't put yourself in a compromising situation at work.

    To those of you here on the forum who are not from the "left coast", Oregon, at least parts of it, are just as bad and stupid-minded as anyplace on the East coast . I was born and raised in Oregon and I went to the University of Oregon (long time ago) and it was BAD back then and has only gotten worse So give him a break--it really is that bad out there.

  14. #28
    Senior Member Array wjh2657's Avatar
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    Bad situation. I am a retired Marine (30 years active duty) and a retired High School Teacher (18 years teaching). Point is I have seen both sides of the argument.

    The danger here would not be a fellow teacher or principal seeing you handcuffed, but having a parent see it. You might as well tell the truth because everybody has access to public information now. In every school I taught in, at least one teacher was married to a cop. Parents all have relatives or friends in the police department, so the truth will out, cops aren't Doctors and they do talk about their work. The parent will probably also decide you are a public menace (this will depend on locale.) One parent's call will cost you your contract renewal. (Tenure only applies if you have done nothing wrong, i.e. offended a parent.) Two parents calling will get you fired right away. The NEA is liberal and anti-gun so don't look to them for support.

    A teacher cannot appear to have any human failing in public. There are always loser parents who blame their teachers for their lack of education (not the pregnancy at 16 or the dropping out of school at 17) and will jump on a chance like this in a heartbeat. Good parents will never be heard and are not a factor in career longevity. I survived to retire, but there were many close calls in my tenure.

    The teacher in handcuffs could have their career destroyed long before they would be able to voice their side. Decisions could be made that night. The next day is already too late.

    All of this is probable and based again on locale. If the parent observing the arrest just goes to your Principal, you probably have a good chance of surviving the incident with your job intact. Principals for the most part are Teacher-friendly. Just hope somebody else doesn't hear about it and call the school board.

    No easy out here. Tell the truth and hope cooler heads prevail. Meanwhile see if Walmart is hiring!
    Retired Marine, Retired School Teacher, Independent voter, Goldwater Conservative.

  15. #29
    Senior Member Array ASSA9's Avatar
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    I say don't lie,misdirect!
    Tell them this
    I was stopped , handcuffed and then let go and I was never given a good reason for him going that. I have never felt so violated in all my life.
    When you are detained by LEO for no reason you are the victim and should tell it that way.
    Zoe: "Preacher, don't the Bible have some pretty specific things to say about killing?

    Book: "Quite specific. It is, however, somewhat fuzzier on the subject of kneecaps."

  16. #30
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    Wink

    You don't owe anybody anything that is sticking their curious nose into your business.

    Tell them that you work closely with local Law Enforcement teaching police officers how to properly effect potentially dangerous traffic stops and that it was a simple training exercise.




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