Inquiry about the "Bad LEO Experience" thread going on

Inquiry about the "Bad LEO Experience" thread going on

This is a discussion on Inquiry about the "Bad LEO Experience" thread going on within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; This got me thinking, my wife and I are teachers. Suppose the principal, children's parents, or co-workers happened to drive by while I'm standing there ...

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  1. #1
    Member Array Zach and Holly's Avatar
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    Inquiry about the "Bad LEO Experience" thread going on

    This got me thinking, my wife and I are teachers. Suppose the principal, children's parents, or co-workers happened to drive by while I'm standing there handcuffed on the side of the road? We obviously haven't broken any laws, but what EXACTLY do you tell them when they inevitably inquire and tell everyone in the school?? I have a concealed weapons permit, and they suspected me of something? This would lead to countless questions such as: "Why? And: do you carry it IN the school, and: you work with kids, how could you do this, etc." It seems like a lose lose situation. Do you lie and make something completely up? Working in a public school, this is likely something that could get very much out of hand as rumors spread. I'm a little worried about this! Thoughts at all? Thank you for reading.

    Original thread I am commenting on:

    http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulle...t-so-good.html
    It is utterly illogical to believe that passing laws to reduce gun violence will be successful when those who are commiting the gun violence do not obey the law.


  2. #2
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    Just tell them the truth.

    MY wife has been teaching for 32 years and has had a permit since 95 when they came out.

    Use it as a "teachable moment".

    So far she has had nothing but postive comments and it is an opportunity to educate those that dont know the particulars of it.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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  3. #3
    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    Just tell them the truth.

    MY wife has been teaching for 32 years and has had a permit since 95 when they came out.

    Use it as a "teachable moment".

    So far she has had nothing but postive comments and it is an opportunity to educate those that dont know the particulars of it.
    I agree.

    Like a wise man once said, "When all else fails, tell the truth."

    Biker

  4. #4
    Senior Member Array stanislaskasava's Avatar
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    This is part of the reason 'bad experiences' need to be kept in check. If it was me, I would not mention anything about a CHL to your employer. Tell them that the officer was mistaken and you were not arrested or even cited. It was a traffic thing or parking ticket or whatever.

    ETA: Normally I do tell the truth, but I don't agree here.

  5. #5
    Member Array TheRogue's Avatar
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    You could say that it was a case of mistaken identity.

    (They mistook you for a criminal.)

  6. #6
    Member Array grandma4's Avatar
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    Based on the fact that in our area everyone knows your business (close knit community) it would get out in just a few strokes on a blackberry and would be posted by somebody on facebook before you could get to the police station.

    However, in our community I don't see that sort of thing happening anyway as LEO is cool with concealed carry. Half the women that teach at my daughters school are CCL holders. They all took the class together.
    2 Chronicles 7:14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

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    Tell them the truth, there was a misunderstanding, it was cleared up and no arrest or charges were filed. You haven't lied to anyone, you just haven't told them all the details, it's really none of their business.

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    Luckily I live in a small town...I wouldn't have to tell anyone as everyone would already know prior to my getting to work the next day.

    Apart from the fact that I don't really care about what anyone thinks, I have earned enough respect from my cohorts that I would probably be given the benefit of the doubt.
    I certainly would set the record straight, but as with life...many opinions are formed without the facts. Thus, my original statement, I don't really care much about what the think.

    I have shared a lot about CCing with our staff...they know clearly where I stand, and I have encouraged 9 of them to get their CCW permits in the last two years...2-3 more are already planning on getting theirs.
    Got to love rural FL.
    Last edited by RETSUPT99; July 26th, 2009 at 07:16 PM.
    The last Blood Moon Tetrad for this millennium starts in April 2014 and ends in September 2015...according to NASA.

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  9. #9
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    Tell the truth.

    Lying implies that you have something to hide or there is something that you are ashamed off. Do not be ashamed that you have taken necessary steps to protect yourself or your loved ones, you need not apologize to anyone for that.

    A Teacher needs to be an example of what is right in this world, not what is wrong with it.

    The world is full of liars. Take the high road and refuse to be one.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


    AR. CHL Instr. 07/02 FFL
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  10. #10
    Member Array DarylW's Avatar
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    If it ever comes up, simply tell them that it was a misunderstanding on the part of the LEO.

    Nothing more need be said, especially if you weren't charged with something.

    Daryl

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by archer51 View Post
    Tell them the truth, there was a misunderstanding, it was cleared up and no arrest or charges were filed. You haven't lied to anyone, you just haven't told them all the details, it's really none of their business.
    Agree. Never lie, but remain silent not to advertise that you carry.
    Your side is that an over-zealous officer erroneously and unnecessarily detained you in response to your measures of self defense for which you take personal responsibility and for which the erroneous officer took exception. You might explain that the police are not charged to protect or to defend the safety of individuals by various court rulings.
    "What measures do you take to protect yourself that would get you detained?", your questioner continues.
    "I choose to keep my measures of self defense a personal matter because revealing specifics diminishes their effectiveness. But I know my rights and responsibilities as a good citizen".

    All's well that ends well.
    Americans understood the right of self-preservation as permitting a citizen to repel force by force
    when the intervention of society... may be too late to prevent an injury.
    -Blackstone’s Commentaries 145–146, n. 42 (1803) in District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008)

  12. #12
    Ex Member Array Deanimator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    Just tell them the truth.
    Absolutely.

    Regardless of what somebody says about you, don't make it worse by PROVING that you're also a liar.

  13. #13
    Member Array Zach and Holly's Avatar
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    This is tough. Such a sensitive workplace for guns makes it difficult to be open. ESPECIALLY if you were handcuffed for having a gun (told the truth). Some people don't even realize it is lawful to own a permit and carry. They just see that....I've got a gun, and was handcuffed. That, I'm afraid, is what people would remember. Not that I tried to defend myself by saying I carry to protect my family. Then why did you get handcuffed will be the response? And an argument will ensue that I'm not sure I could win with very liberal teachers, no matter how reasonable I am. And I'm VERY reasonable and can explain the reasons perfectly. Sadly, I think it's already obvious, yet they still are afraid and ignorant.

    I also thought about the possibility of this somehow getting on the news. "Questions are being asked about just how far cops are allowed to probe legally carrying citizens, story at 11." Haha, better not have lied if that comes up!

    If I were to make up a story, the only thing I can think of is just to say something like: "My car came up stolen, and they handcuffed me for a few minutes until they realized it was mistake..." But again, I could just not give a reason. Just say that it was a mistake. But they will want a reason, and details about that reason. I mean, they're close friends, of course they would! I'm not the type of person to just proclaim "none of your business" to my friends. I would be curious too and would find it strange if my friends told me "none of your business", even if said politely, I would find kind of strange like, I wonder what it is that they are hesitant to talk about it?

    I agree with Hotguns though. But, gosh, in this case, I really think it could explode into something insane that might imprint a lasting negative impression and reputation that could very well ruin my name -- I only have my name in the system for people to look at when subbing or applying for different things. I don't want people's thought while glancing at my name to be: "Isn't that the guy who was handcuffed and arrested for carrying a loaded gun??" And yes, I'm sure arrested will be thrown in there after the first gossip. Handcuffed is easy to group with being arrested in the average minds of those driving by.

    Very difficult.
    It is utterly illogical to believe that passing laws to reduce gun violence will be successful when those who are commiting the gun violence do not obey the law.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zach and Holly View Post
    [A]n argument will ensue that I'm not sure I could win with very liberal teachers, no matter how reasonable I am. And I'm VERY reasonable and can explain the reasons perfectly.

    What is "liberal"? A kool-aid drinking cult that forsakes reason and good citizenship? A busybody in your personal life? That's not my idea of "liberal".


    Just say that it was a mistake. But they will want a reason, and details about that reason. I mean, they're close friends, of course they would! I'm not the type of person to just proclaim "none of your business" to my friends. I would be curious too and would find it strange if my friends told me "none of your business", even if said politely, I would find kind of strange like, I wonder what it is that they are hesitant to talk about it?

    It is self defense that you are hesitant to detail. Use the analogy of exchanging copies of house keys. You trust each other but why take the extra risk? Sharing details of my personal defense is the same thing.
    "I might hesitate to shoot a home-invader if I thought there was any chance it could be you. And it's my responsibility to defend the lives of my loved ones. This the courts recognize."
    "Oh, so you carry a gun?"
    "I won't give details".


    I agree with Hotguns though. But, gosh, in this case, I really think it could explode into something insane that might imprint a lasting negative impression and reputation that could very well ruin my name -- I only have my name in the system for people to look at when subbing or applying for different things. I don't want people's thought while glancing at my name to be: "Isn't that the guy who was handcuffed and arrested for carrying a loaded gun??" And yes, I'm sure arrested will be thrown in there after the first gossip. Handcuffed is easy to group with being arrested in the average minds of those driving by.

    Very difficult.

    Yes, life can be difficult. A prohet in his home town. But get a grip, take a stand, and be a leader.
    "If you stand up and be counted, from time to time you may get yourself knocked down. But remember this: A man flattened by an opponent can get up again. A man flattened by conformity stays down for good."-Thomas J. Watson
    Americans understood the right of self-preservation as permitting a citizen to repel force by force
    when the intervention of society... may be too late to prevent an injury.
    -Blackstone’s Commentaries 145–146, n. 42 (1803) in District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008)

  15. #15
    Senior Member Array stanislaskasava's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    Tell the truth.

    Lying implies that you have something to hide or there is something that you are ashamed off. Do not be ashamed that you have taken necessary steps to protect yourself or your loved ones, you need not apologize to anyone for that.

    A Teacher needs to be an example of what is right in this world, not what is wrong with it.

    The world is full of liars. Take the high road and refuse to be one.
    I agree wholeheartedly that the world is full of liars. Humans living as animals, with no quality of virtue or honesty. Of this fact I am painfully aware, and it concerns me daily, more than I care to say.

    However, it is a Concealed Handgun License, not a "Hey Boss, I carry a gun at work!" license. Keep it concealed in every way. Especially if you happen to work at a school in Oregon. It is perfectly legal and moral for the OP to carry at the school, but he is sure to be hassled with Administrative Rules that are unconstitutional under the state constitution. He would almost certainly be denied his right to carry if he tells the truth. Google 'Shirley Katz Medford' to learn about a teacher who was outed in Oregon.

    Imagine that you are a Jew in Nazi Germany. Would it be wrong to lie to preserve your God given right to live? Is that not why we carry? To defend our life? I say defend also your means of self defense.

    I am not advocating 'lying' to law enforcement, but that's not in question here. This is more like refusing to answer an inappropriate question about your private life. Sometimes the truth is nobody's business but yours.

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