Shooting Log

This is a discussion on Shooting Log within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Wow and I thought I was on to something new here Anubis I am impressed with your dedication. P95 I know I am a hillbilly ...

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Thread: Shooting Log

  1. #16
    Distinguished Member Array fotomaker57's Avatar
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    Wow and I thought I was on to something new here Anubis I am impressed with your dedication. P95 I know I am a hillbilly but shooting a defenseless tree I have kept a rough round count on my pistols but am going to do a better job with the practice.
    Mike
    The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
    Thomas Jefferson

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  3. #17
    VIP Member Array maclean3's Avatar
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    I generally try to keep notes on how many rounds, what brand(s) and any reliability issues from each range trip - though I've been slacking on that lately. I mainly want to know the number of rounds downrange (maintanence and resale value) and problematic ammo for each of my weapons. I usually try a basic grading of ammo accuracy as well (ie, Brand X = acceptable, Brand Y = fair, etc).
    Jack

  4. #18
    Senior Member Array madmike's Avatar
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    Defenseless Tree? HA!

    A tree is just a bunch of baseball bats waiting to happen. And more people are killed every year by baseball bats than handguns!

    mm
    Political Correctness has now "evolved" into Political Cowardice.

  5. #19
    Member Array HiWayMan's Avatar
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    I know my brother does this. Since it is a new year, I think I'll start this practice. I know it is almost April and I haven't had a formal range visit yet. I suck.

  6. #20
    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
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    Exclamation CCW NOT held to same standards as LE!

    Quote Originally Posted by mike_1
    How many of you keep a shooting log? One that documents when you shot, how many rounds and what drills were practiced. This was brought up by one of the instructors at my CC class. He said as permit holders we would be held to the same standards as LE if GOD forbid we wind up in court. He said a prosecutor could ask how often we practiced and that could have a bearing on the outcome. To me this made a lot of since. So I think I will start to keep a nice log of all my practice from here on out.
    Mike
    I don't keep a log, although I would guess my attendance records at my IDPA matches might serve as such, as would my IDPA ranking.

    We as citizens are NOT held to LE standards! We for example are not required to give a verbal warning before we shoot. We are not required to practice or qualify as it is presumed that we will not be put into life threatening situations as often as a LEO. Although it MIGHT be a good idea, you are not required to use the same ammo as the LEO's in your area, nor the same gun or caliber. Neither do most of us have acces to the LE ranges (although some IDPA clubs do) for that sort of practice. How does a prosecutor expect a citizen to practice draws and actual course fire lacking these facilities? Naaaaw there's too many ways to fill that particular stupid prosecutor trick, full of holes...lol.

    Here's another stupid prosecutor trick:
    Mr Permit Holder, since you claim to have shot this poor misbegotted soul during the course of a holdup...and he subsequently died.....do you REGRET this action? Who wouldn't have some feelings of regret? But if you say you do...you're TOAST. Guilty folks REGRET their actions...at least that's how stupid prosecutors see things. If you claim you're PROUD to have killed the fool, unless you live in a new castle doctrine state that precludes the lawsuit (like FL), you've just set yourself up for the mother of all lawsuits. So what do you say?

    Mr Prosecutor....I GRIEVE for that young man and his family. I grieve for what HIS actions forced me to do.....

    Anyway, we're not LEOs and we're not as a matter of course held to the same standards....
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  7. #21
    Member Array Blinky's Avatar
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    Here are some interesting forms I found online...
    Blinky

    _______________________________________________
    "If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it
    would be reasonable to shoot back with your own
    gun."
    Dalai Lama - May 15, 2001, The Seattle Times
    _______________________________________________

  8. #22
    Distinguished Member Array fotomaker57's Avatar
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    I think the point he was trying to make was that once the shot is made we stand a better chance in court if we can show that we took our carry seriously and kept up on our practice and training just as LE does. The example he used was if 10 years down the road we are forced to shoot and the only training we can show was the CCW class we took 10 years previous it could reflect poorly on us to a jury. Granted it was just his opinion but I feel a valid one.
    Mike
    The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
    Thomas Jefferson

  9. #23
    Member Array ChrisFry's Avatar
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    I keep a log of all rounds fired during classes and during my private training session. Usually naming the drill, number of evolutions and total number of rounds fired.
    WE ARE EDUCATED IN PAIN

    Chris Fry
    www.mdtstraining.com

  10. #24
    Senior Member Array madmike's Avatar
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    It would be much better to either ask a lawyer or do some research and see what has happened in court, in the past. Even so, you'd find that any info you came across would only apply in the local the case took place in, due to the lack of uniformity.

    It's almost ridiculous for us to say how something might play in court. If you do want to play that game, OK.

    In one area, your log might show that you were a safety oriented, conscientious, law-abiding citizen, based on your log.

    In another area, your log could also be used to show you were a fanatic, trying to become as lethal as possible, and just looking for a chance to put your deadly skills into use.

    There you go! Pick the scenario that supports your position!

    mm
    Political Correctness has now "evolved" into Political Cowardice.

  11. #25
    Distinguished Member Array fotomaker57's Avatar
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    That is a good point Mike.
    Mike
    The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
    Thomas Jefferson

  12. #26
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    Indeed Mike - there are two very distinct ways of viewing it!!!

    I think for most part I would cite my NRA tuition involvement and that is easy to back up re classes taught etc. Over and above that some competition dates etc - enough I'd think to show I at least have experience and am not just a casual non-shooting CCW!
    Chris - P95
    NRA Certified Instructor & NRA Life Member.

    "To own a gun and assume that you are armed
    is like owning a piano and assuming that you are a musician!."


    http://www.rkba-2a.com/ - a portal for 2A links, articles and some videos.

  13. #27
    Member Array 10-Ring's Avatar
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    mike_1, just gonna take a shot in the dark here, but did you train at MSSU?

    When I took mine there, Mr. Thomason suggested this to me as well. He had some very detailed descriptions of what needed to be in it.

    He is an expert witness in firearms training (head instructor MSSU Police academy), and has the real-world experience to say what will happen.

    He made a believer out of me. I keep mine updated every time I shoot. What guns I used, ammo expended, target type, distances, special tasks accomplished (ex. verbal commands, weak hand only, etc.), location of the shoot, time spent shooting, date. Pretty much a carbon-copy of what he recommended.

  14. #28
    VIP Member Array sixgun's Avatar
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    Sounds like a good tip. I think Ill start that this year when I can get back outdoors. Thanks for the tip. Shoot straight and be safe Sixgun

  15. #29
    Distinguished Member Array fotomaker57's Avatar
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    Yes it was MSSU and yes Mr Thomason. You and I must be neighbors. He did make a lot of sense.
    Mike
    The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
    Thomas Jefferson

  16. #30
    Member Array ppro's Avatar
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    shooting log

    Eminent threat of loss of life, or grievous bodily harm....coupled with the ability opportunity and intent (or the appearance thereof), to inflict said harm.

    Understanding threat response levels and threat response dynamics.

    These would be the kind of things I would be far and away more concerned with myself than logging shooting practice.

    To me, the greatest test is to reasonably prove that you were justified in your actions.....

    My recollection of the necessity to train (shoot) and document is demonstrate your ability to safely and proficiently handle your firearm, which has little or nothing to do with the legal challenges per say, unless you cause undue harm to the innocent or uninvolved. At the point you injure a innocent person or a non threat......you have way big problems that your shooting documentation will do little to help you survive, to some greater extent.

    Just my thoughts on the subject.

    Paul

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