Camping trip

Camping trip

This is a discussion on Camping trip within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Going camping in Arkansas Headwaters Park in a couple and I am wondering what I can do? If I am correct then Colorado is a ...

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Thread: Camping trip

  1. #1
    Member Array wine6978's Avatar
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    Camping trip

    Going camping in Arkansas Headwaters Park in a couple and I am wondering what I can do? If I am correct then Colorado is a open carry state so can I do that being from Texas? And the whole state park issue what does that mean for carrying or even taking a gun? ANy help would be great help!!
    You can't go through life being afraid!!

    Sig 229 .40, Taurus 605 .357, Keltec P32


  2. #2
    Distinguished Member Array pcon's Avatar
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    Most of CO is OC. You'll want to avoid that if you're in Denver or Boulder. It's illegal in both cities, from what I understand. I could be wrong though...
    Μολὼν λαβέ

    memento mori


  3. #3
    Distinguished Member Array tinkerinWstuff's Avatar
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    open carry is not guaranteed in Colorado, it just is not prohibited at state level. Local municiplities can prohibit OC but state law requires they post (Title 29 Article 11 29-11.7-104). Except for Denver after court case 03 CV 3809 where Denver used "Home Rule" ammendment to block state premption allowing OC on state property and the requirements of posting OC forbidden zones. Also note, there is no sign/posting standard for any business or municipality.

    I have never found a law prohibiting OC in state parks but I have had a park stranger here on the front range tell me their park director doesn't allow OC so I had to put it away or CC if I had a permit. I wasn't in a position at the time to debate with her...

    So, if it were me; I would look for signs upon entering the park. Provided there are no signs, I would OC, look and act professional (as much as you can while camping, i.e. have a neat campsite etc..), and I wouldn't expect to have a problem. If you aren't breaking any other park rules and a park stranger comes up to say hello and check your group out, the worst I would expect is to be asked to put it away (if even that). But that's just me.

    check Handgunlaw.us , CCW Related Statutes , and Michie's Legal Resources to cover your butt. Have a good time and be safe!
    Last edited by tinkerinWstuff; July 29th, 2009 at 03:52 PM. Reason: Add citations for Title 29 and Denver court case
    "Run for your life from the man who tells you that money is evil. That sentence is the leper's bell of an approaching looter. So long as men live together on earth and need means to deal with one another-their only substitute, if they abandon money, is the muzzle of a gun."

    Who is John Galt?

  4. #4
    Member Array redline4200's Avatar
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  5. #5
    Distinguished Member Array tinkerinWstuff's Avatar
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    Poop - I found more. Check the state parks 2009 regulations:

    http://parks.state.co.us/NR/rdonlyre...gs_spreads.pdf

    Which says you have to have a portable pooper in the Arkansas:

    10. Arkansas Headwaters Recreation Area
    (a) Except in established campgrounds where toilet facilities
    are provided, all overnight campers must provide and
    use a portable toilet device capable of carrying human
    waste out of the Arkansas Headwaters Recreation
    Area. Contents of the portable toilet must be emptied in
    compliance with law and may not be deposited within
    the Arkansas Headwaters Recreation Area, unless
    at a facility specifically designated by the Arkansas
    Headwaters Recreation Area.


    and that:

    a. It shall be unlawful:
    WEAPONS, FIREARMS, AND FIREWORKS
    1. To possess, carry, or discharge explosives, firearms and/
    or other weapons on parks and outdoor recreation lands
    or waters in any manner that violates Title 18, C.R.S., or
    any other applicable law. The lawful carry of concealed
    handguns by persons in possession of a valid concealed
    handgun permit, together with valid photo identification,
    is permitted. The possession or discharge of fireworks is
    prohibited. The lawful possession and/or discharge of
    firearms on designated shooting ranges is permitted. Other
    exceptions pertaining to the possession and/or discharge
    of firearms on parks and outdoor recreation lands or
    waters are as follows:
    and then goes on to discuss hunting in length.

    So, on to find out what title 18 has to say...
    Last edited by tinkerinWstuff; July 29th, 2009 at 03:55 PM. Reason: add citation for portable pooper
    "Run for your life from the man who tells you that money is evil. That sentence is the leper's bell of an approaching looter. So long as men live together on earth and need means to deal with one another-their only substitute, if they abandon money, is the muzzle of a gun."

    Who is John Galt?

  6. #6
    Distinguished Member Array tinkerinWstuff's Avatar
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    when reviewing the Michie's link I provided above, title 18 is the state criminal code. Title 18 Article 12 covers possesion of firearms and weapons. So in my non lawyer opinion, that would mean you can't possess a gun as a felon, automatic weapons, guns in commission of a felony, possesion of guns by minors, giving a gun to a minor etc... So, it's creative wording to discourage firearms unless hunting but I still think you'd be fine as long as you know the law and don't behave like a miscreant.

    link straight to title 18 Article 12(hopefully):
    http://www.michie.com/colorado/lpext....0#JD_t18art12
    Last edited by tinkerinWstuff; July 29th, 2009 at 03:34 PM. Reason: more detail including article 12 of title 18
    "Run for your life from the man who tells you that money is evil. That sentence is the leper's bell of an approaching looter. So long as men live together on earth and need means to deal with one another-their only substitute, if they abandon money, is the muzzle of a gun."

    Who is John Galt?

  7. #7
    Distinguished Member Array tinkerinWstuff's Avatar
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    In summary, if I were asked by a park stranger why I was open carrying, my response would be:

    sir/ma'am, the 2009 State Parks Reg's, Article IV says possession of firearms in violation of Title 18 is prohibited. Title 18 is the states criminal code and I am not doing anything illegal nor am I here with the intent of committing a criminal act. Therefore, the Colorado State Constitution Article II Bill of Rights Section 13 protects my right to bear arms in defense of home, person, and property.

    I am open carrying my firearm because I cannot legally conceal in this state however, I have undergone FBI background checks and may legally conceal in _______blank other states with my Texas permit.
    Even if their manager has told them no OC, when you blast them with legal speak, showing you know the law, probably better than they do because I guarantee you they can't tell you what Title 18 is or Article II section 13 is, then the most the park stranger will do is ask you to put it away or leave and ask their manager later.
    "Run for your life from the man who tells you that money is evil. That sentence is the leper's bell of an approaching looter. So long as men live together on earth and need means to deal with one another-their only substitute, if they abandon money, is the muzzle of a gun."

    Who is John Galt?

  8. #8
    Member Array wine6978's Avatar
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    Wow thanks tink!!! That helps alot I think I'll take it and just leave it in the truck. My main reason was for bears and other things, but I think I'll just stick with bear mace!!! I just wanna go camping and have some fun, if carrying open will cause a ruckus then never mind it!!
    You can't go through life being afraid!!

    Sig 229 .40, Taurus 605 .357, Keltec P32

  9. #9
    Member Array CGColorado's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pcon View Post
    Most of CO is OC. You'll want to avoid that if you're in Denver or Boulder. It's illegal in both cities, from what I understand. I could be wrong though...
    OC is ok in Boulder, just not on Open Space and Mountain Parks land.

    Not sure I'd do it...but it's legal. :-)

  10. #10
    Distinguished Member Array tinkerinWstuff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wine6978 View Post
    Wow thanks tink!!! That helps alot I think I'll take it and just leave it in the truck. My main reason was for bears and other things, but I think I'll just stick with bear mace!!! I just wanna go camping and have some fun, if carrying open will cause a ruckus then never mind it!!
    I would say that your chances of a "ruckus" are slim. If I had to throw a number on it, I'd speculate there'd be a 10% chance of getting any crap. But, I prefer the boyscouts motto of being prepared. Also, on the forums, people like to throw around opinions and general statements. I figured I'd give you the facts to back it up. So bring your holster in case you decide you want to carry.

    Vehicle carry. Same Title 18 Article 12 18-12-105.5 and 105.6
    18-12-105.5. Unlawfully carrying a weapon - unlawful possession of weapons - school, college, or university grounds.
    .......
    ....
    ....
    (3) It shall not be an offense under this section if:
    ...
    ...
    ...
    (c) The person is in a private automobile or other private means of conveyance and is carrying a weapon for lawful protection of that person's or another's person or property while traveling; or......
    18-12-105.6
    Limitations on local ordinances regarding firearms in private vehicles.
    ...
    ...
    (2) (a) Based on the findings specified in subsection (1) of this section, the general assembly concludes that the carrying of weapons in private automobiles or other private means of conveyance for hunting or for lawful protection of a person's or another's person or property while traveling into, through, or within, a municipal, county, or city and county jurisdiction, regardless of the number of times the person stops in a jurisdiction, is a matter of statewide concern and is not an offense.

    (b) Notwithstanding any other provision of law, no municipality, county, or city and county shall have the authority to enact or enforce any ordinance or resolution that would restrict a person's ability to travel with a weapon in a private automobile or other private means of conveyance for hunting or for lawful protection of a person's or another's person or property while traveling into, through, or within, a municipal, county, or city and county jurisdiction, regardless of the number of times the person stops in a jurisdiction.
    Generally accepted that loaded pistols concealed or otherwise are legal in a private vehicle, just do not have it concealed on your body without a valid permit.
    "Run for your life from the man who tells you that money is evil. That sentence is the leper's bell of an approaching looter. So long as men live together on earth and need means to deal with one another-their only substitute, if they abandon money, is the muzzle of a gun."

    Who is John Galt?

  11. #11
    Member Array wine6978's Avatar
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    OK well hell I'll bring it and give it a shot.
    You can't go through life being afraid!!

    Sig 229 .40, Taurus 605 .357, Keltec P32

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