Experience at Work Last Week`

Experience at Work Last Week`

This is a discussion on Experience at Work Last Week` within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I need your opinion on something that happened last week while I was at work. As some of you may recall from my prior messages ...

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Thread: Experience at Work Last Week`

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array Pikachu711's Avatar
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    Experience at Work Last Week`

    I need your opinion on something that happened last week while I was at work. As some of you may recall from my prior messages I am employed as an "unarmed" security officer here in Las Vegas, NV. Last week I had the potential of having a very serious situation that may have required me to shoot a pit bull.

    PLEASE, before all you dog lovers judge me too harshly, let me finish this message. It will become clearer the more you read!

    I was in the guard shack at the gate when I received a call from my dispatcher that a resident was reporting a large pit bull was about to climb over the railing of one the condos. According to the caller this dog is ready to climb out and get loose on the property. This pit bull has been on the patio with NO WATER all day according to the caller. This could mean a very mentally unbalanced dog. Keep in mind that it was around 113 degrees outside that day here as well! My dispatcher then provided me with the building and condo where the pit bull was located. Now I start to get very nervous!

    Just some background on me. I carry a Glock 26 & spare 15 round magazine in a Smartcarry holster. The client KNOWS I carry a concealed weapon and has no problem whatsoever with this at all. He also is a CCW permit holder.

    As I'm headed to this location I'm worried that this pit bull if it gets loose on the property. It could cause serious injuries to someone to say the least. This is a family community with kids outside.

    As I'm approaching the area of the condo with the pit bull I'm getting more nervous. As I approach the condo I'm looking for any signs of this dog having escaped yet. No pit bull so far! That's good.

    I locate the condo & find that it's a full grown pit bull on the edge of the patio trying to climb over & escape. It doesn't look like it can make it over the railing so I approach cautiously. As I'm approaching the dog growls at me as it is "stuck" on the edge & can't go anywhere! Thank goodness for small things! I looked into the patio & this dog is NOT LEASHED at all. There is also no water bowl, food bowl, etc. for this dog at all.

    Upon closer examination, I notice that it's an older female pit bull that someone just put on the patio and left there by itself. The dog is still growling at me but now I know it stands little chance of escaping.

    Long story short, I call the police. Yeah right, animal control isn't working at the time. The police recommended that I just put some water on the patio & try and get the pit bull back into the patio! HOW??? One of the neighbors gave me a container of water that I managed to put into the patio. The dog somehow managed to climb down into the patio again. Problem solved for the time being.

    Here's my long awaited question! lol What should I have done in the event that this had been a young, healthy "albeit water deprived", now somewhat crazy pit bull? What if it had escaped onto the property? Short of calling the cops, there isn't much more for me to do under the circumstances? Should I have jeopardized my job by shooting the somewhat crazy pit bull if it escaped and approached myself or a resident before the LEO's arrived on the property?

    Any thoughts?
    Last edited by Pikachu711; August 2nd, 2009 at 11:11 AM.
    "Gun control is being able to hit your target."
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  2. #2
    Member Array fireman836's Avatar
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    You were hired as an unarmed security guard. Unless someones life is in danger do not engage. Remember your handgun is a tool of last resort.

    I would hope the resident was at minimum notified this is unacceptable.
    I carry a bible and a gun. Your Point?

    Vindiciae Contra Tyrannos (meaning: "A defence of liberty against tyrants")

  3. #3
    VIP Member Array Pikachu711's Avatar
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    Water Deprived Pit Bull

    Quote Originally Posted by fireman836 View Post
    You were hired as an unarmed security guard. Unless someones life is in danger do not engage. Remember your handgun is a tool of last resort.

    I would hope the resident was at minimum notified this is unacceptable.
    I totally agree with you that I have NO intention of using my G26 while on the job. It's for my self protection an nothing more. So far that situation has not occurred yet.

    What had me concerned was if this dog had gotten loose and started going after residents of the property. By the way, the playground was ONE building away from the condo with the pit bull! It wouldn't be too far this pit bull to travel where children were playing at the time! If I had thought that this dog could have gotten loose I would have made a quick run to the playground & have the few kids that were there with parents go inside for their safety!

    The management of the property is in the process of evicting this resident. It's illegal to have a pit bull on the property. She didn't realize that her pit bull was against the rules. Yeah, right!
    "Gun control is being able to hit your target."
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  4. #4
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    Only you can make the call on "Should I carry?"...(I would.)

    The pit bull's owner should be chained to the porch without any water for an entire day.
    The last Blood Moon Tetrad for this millennium starts in April 2014 and ends in September 2015...according to NASA.

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  5. #5
    VIP Member Array Pikachu711's Avatar
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    Pit Bull on Patio

    Quote Originally Posted by retsupt99 View Post
    Only you can make the call on "Should I carry?"...(I would.)

    The pit bull's owner should be chained to the porch without any water for an entire day.
    I think I'll continue to carry! No doubt about it. I agree that this resident, soon to be "former resident", should be chained on the patio in the sun with no water!

    Actually, this gave me a great idea as to what I could have done instead of having to shoot a "wild" pit bull. One of the properties pools is adjacent to the playground. I would have had all the residents from the playground move into the safety of the gated pool area. The danger for the residents is now over for them. I would then call 9-1-1 to tell the police that the dog was now loose on the property. There is no longer the need for me to consider shooting the dog!
    "Gun control is being able to hit your target."
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    If it had been a collie, or a lab would you feel a need to shoot it had it been loose? Just the fact that the dog is a pitbull and off leash running loose would not be justification to shoot it. The animal would have to be an actual threat to someone before shooting it would be justified.

  7. #7
    VIP Member Array Pikachu711's Avatar
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    Pit Bull on Patio

    Quote Originally Posted by archer51 View Post
    If it had been a collie, or a lab would you feel a need to shoot it had it been loose? Just the fact that the dog is a pitbull and off leash running loose would not be justification to shoot it. The animal would have to be an actual threat to someone before shooting it would be justified.
    Precisely correct! That's why in hindsight for the safety of the residents I would have had them move to the safety of the gated pool area. No danger to the residents. I would have stayed close to that area myself.

    It's still ashamed that the dog owner left this dog on the patio all day with no water at 113 degrees in the afternoon. No dog, even a pit bull, deserves that kind of abuse. By the way, animal control was notified of her address so they will be contacting her about this incident as well.
    "Gun control is being able to hit your target."
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  8. #8
    Senior Member Array DrLewall's Avatar
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    Being a Pitbull owner..I wonder if you talked to the dog in a calming voice at all..no mention of doing so. Not all Pitbulls are evil. Getting water to the animal was good..making a report of animal cruelty against the owner perhaps would prevent this in the future?
    "Brains before Bullets"

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    Senior Member Array gdm320's Avatar
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    First of all, in Florida, leaving a dog outside for that period of time without proper shelter, food, and water is a serious crime. The dog should be offered to a rescue organization for abused animals.

    Second, I don't think you would have been in a good situation to shoot the dog unless a life was in immediate danger (i.e. the dog chargers you or another person).
    "Bravery is the capacity to perform properly even when scared half to death." -- General Omar Bradley

  10. #10
    Member Array dukenukum's Avatar
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    I had a similar situation at a family members home. neighbors pit bull was aggressive to everyone because she was hungry. I fed the dog called the humane society as they have cruelty investigators and animal control in my county is useless.
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  11. #11
    Member Array llongshot's Avatar
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    At one time I owned Bullmastiffs. They're larger heavier dogs and were bred to deal with men instead of other dogs as was the Pitbull. My dogs would allow a child to ride them but wouldn't tolerate abuse from an adult. The key portion of your post was the fact that you were nervous before arriving and assessing the situation. A Chiuaua...Chihuahua...oh heck...one of them small hairless Mexican dogs is way more likely to bite than about any other breed. My advice?. Do not presuppose. Remain calm if possible. If you're moving into a situation as the controlling entity all animals and most humans will key off you. Making a judgement before you arrive and running scenarios prematurely makes one prone to a particular response. Practice responding to whatever your senses tell you is happening. Do not develop tunnelvision.

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    Member Array nova83tx's Avatar
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    I don't know about the skill confidence of most people in here, but I would have very low confidence that I could shoot a dog running full speed laterally at more than 10 yards.

    Why would I be close enough to take that shot, without the proper animal training? I wouldn't.

    If I were an unarmed security guard, I would assume my job duties would be a call into animal control and the police, and sit tight in my vehicle, or guard shack, till those that are properly trained arrived.

    I think the OP handled the situation very well. Went to investigate, called the proper authorities, informed the dog owner of the violation.

    If the dog had gotten loose, I am moving to the nearest shelter which would protect me from the dog. If the dog is close enough to me and coming directly at me for an attack, that is the only scenario that I would draw and fire.

    As for the other people on the property, I feel calloused saying this, but I treat it like a domestic dispute between a couple. If I walk up and see a man striking his wife in his parking lot . . . I would stay a safe distance away, call the authorities and be a good witness.

    I have my CHL for PERSONAL protection which extends to me and mine. Everyone else around me had the same option to go through the training and carry if they wanted too. If something happens to them, I will do what I can to help, but not at the sacrifice of my safety.
    Glock 26 w/ CTAC IWB

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  13. #13
    Member Array llongshot's Avatar
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    The premise is that the initial reaction was to be nervous because the dog was a Pitbull attempting to harm people. It was not the situation. The cure? Don't take it for granted that because somebody's grandma assumes that everyone wearing baggy pants is a gangbanger that you're going to encounter a gangbanger when you get there. If attacked by anything, including a nesting Mockingbird, your response has to match the assault. The lesson here is not to make the callers interpretation of the event effect yours.

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    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gdm320 View Post
    First of all, in Florida, leaving a dog outside for that period of time without proper shelter, food, and water is a serious crime. The dog should be offered to a rescue organization for abused animals.

    Second, I don't think you would have been in a good situation to shoot the dog unless a life was in immediate danger (i.e. the dog chargers you or another person).
    +1...I'd take her if it was out here near me(ie within reasonable driving distance). A little rehab and she'd probably make a nice playmate for my Pit(a former rescue herself).

    I'd say you did ok in this one anyway. You took care of the situation and no need to get yourself into a legal rollercoaster. The growling and snarling on the part of the dog is usually fear, and you CAN deal with that.
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

    "Sure, As long as the machines are workin' and you can call 911. But you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, and you scare the crap out of them; no more rules...You'll see how primitive they can get."
    -The Mist (2007)

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    Member Array C Paul Lincoln's Avatar
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    You are an "unarmed" security guard, but are you allowed to carry any non-lethal tools? I hope at minimum you have OC. Preferably an extendable baton and perhaps a Taser. If you had non-lethal tools, you would have options.

    How do you dress for your job? Do you wear some type of duty boot, with reinforced toes? A good boot would provide some protection if you need to kick at an aggressive dog or assailant.

    Your client sounds like he understands the need for self-protection. If you aren't carrying non-lethal tools now, I recommend you start that discussion.

    CP Lincoln

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