Encountering another CCWer while in a situation...

This is a discussion on Encountering another CCWer while in a situation... within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; ccw9mm, You've highlighted the problem quite well: our government. Surprise, surprise. It's taken many decades, but it has turned from a people-run government to a ...

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Thread: Encountering another CCWer while in a situation...

  1. #61
    Member Array NCRonB's Avatar
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    ccw9mm,

    You've highlighted the problem quite well: our government. Surprise, surprise. It's taken many decades, but it has turned from a people-run government to a run-people government and my sentiments of duty to play the good guy are lost in fear of those who are supposed to protect our interests.

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  3. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by chiefjason View Post
    I understand the sentiment, I used to carry first aid gear and have stopped for a few accidents. My first aid training has expired so I have no legal recourse, training, to protect me. I reserve most of what I know to dealing with friends and family. YOu can blame some of the lack of involvement on the current legal system. People are so interested in suing that it makes someone like me hesitant to get involved unless I am sure what is going on. We have a good samaritan law, but it only applies to reasonable responses.
    I thought the good samaritan laws would allow you to perform first aid even with expired training without risk of a lawsuit. Would it not?

    To deal specifically with getting involved to stop a crime. My personal feeling is that carrying a firearm makes me better able to defend myself, but less likely to get involved in a physical altercation for someone else. Currently I can only OC, I am in the eternal CCP wait. Even when CC'ing though you have to be conscious of dealing with and retaining the firearm as well as dealing with the BG. I don't want to risk a physical altercation and loose possession of the firearm. While carrying I personally consider a physical altercation life threatening. What happens if the BG disables me and disarms me? Bad news for sure.
    I can appreciate your reasoning and it's certainly something to consider. There are an infinite number of scenarios, so I can't say I would always act or not act a certain way toward a crime in my presence, but I would like to think there are many situations where, even carrying, I could safely intervene without my gun, but with more than a phone call.

  4. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldskoolfan View Post
    It is dangerous for us to enter these situations but it is our duty as CCW permit holders.
    As a friend of mine was fond of saying wrong answer! IT is not my duty to do anything in this situation. I am not sure it was the second guys duty either. As has been said before I am not a cop! there fore only if you threaten my life or the life of my family will I pull out my gat! The question one need to ask is who do I consider family!!

    What would you all have done? How would you do things differently?
    Kept on going!

  5. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom Doc View Post
    I seem to recall anti-gunners who predicted (after the passing of concealed carry laws) that folks with a license would be drawing down on each other. I join in with Janq, ccw9mm, and the others who advise folks that we are not cops, and please don't be giving anti-gunners ammo to use against us.
    ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑ ↑

    Make that + whatever.
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    I'm just one root in a grassroots organization. No one should assume that I speak for the VCDL.

    I am neither an attorney-at-law nor I do play one on television or on the internet. No one should assumes my opinion is legal advice.

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  6. #65
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    i think it would have been much more glorifying to run down the thief and tackle him in the streets, detain him until help arrives.

    this doesn't mean someone else wouldn't intervene while you detain the thief with your hands alone, but you certainly wouldn't have been accused of impersonating and officer of the law..

  7. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by blitzpackage View Post
    It is not our duty as CCW permit holders to draw weapons and detain people. If someone elects to do so, they should be prepared to live with the repercussions. The name of this forum is a better guide: Defensive Carry!
    We have to try and help others since we have accepted the responsibility of being armed. We are sheepdogs, right?

  8. #67
    Ex Member Array Oldskoolfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Majorlk View Post
    From handgunlaw.us:

    Illinois Does not honor any other states Permits/Licenses

    Illinois does not issue any type of Permit/License to carry a firearm concealed.

    Non Carry state. Carrying firearms in Illinois is very difficult unless unloaded and stored so they are not accessible.


    I have to say this, especially after some of the posts you have made condemning others for not carrying 24/7, every place they go: considering you live in a state where carrying concealed is illegal, who are you to be giving anyone advice on how to react when carrying?
    I carry when not in Illinois. As soon as I am able, I am out of IL.

    But either way, if you see some guy holding someone else at gunpoint, nobody would stop to help?

  9. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldskoolfan View Post
    We have to try and help others since we have accepted the responsibility of being armed. We are sheepdogs, right?
    Wrong.

  10. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by wmhawth View Post
    Wrong.
    If you saw some guy threatening a woman at the mall with a pistol, you would not intervene or try to help?

  11. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldskoolfan View Post
    If you saw some guy threatening a woman at the mall with a pistol, you would not intervene or try to help?
    In Virginia it needs to be in self-defense or in the defense of another innocent third party.

    You need reasonable grounds to believed that you, or an innocent third person, was in imminent danger of death or serious bodily harm.

    Your comfort level/knowledge that the woman is not the initial aggressor or somehow less than innocent is the problem with coming up on a scene (such as your "guy threatening a woman at the mall with a pistol"). How do you know that she wasn't robbing him and he had just wrestled the pistol away from her, as you walked up?

    Hopefully, I'd read the scene right, get it right and do the right thing. However, I could still be the loser.

    Remember that there are tons of cases where LEO's intervene to save someone's life only to have the ostensible "victim" turn on the LEO -- through force or later in court (testifying for the perp or suing for harm or trauma caused by the LEO).
    Last edited by DaveH; August 9th, 2009 at 08:58 PM.
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    I'm just one root in a grassroots organization. No one should assume that I speak for the VCDL.

    I am neither an attorney-at-law nor I do play one on television or on the internet. No one should assumes my opinion is legal advice.

    Veni, Vidi, Velcro

  12. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldskoolfan View Post
    We have to try and help others since we have accepted the responsibility of being armed. We are sheepdogs, right?
    No, what you're talking about is being a vigilante, not a sheepdog. You are not a LEO. You may be allowed to carry concealed, but that's only to protect yourself, family, or an innocent 3rd party from an imminent threat of death or serious bodily injury. Do not use or threaten use of lethal force for a minor property crime like some guy running off with someone's duffel bag.

    If you want to be a crime fighter because you can carry a gun, then you should go all the way and become a LEO. Otherwise, don't try to be a vigilante or wannabe cop.

  13. #72
    Ex Member Array Oldskoolfan's Avatar
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    I guess my sarcasm is lost on you guys.

  14. #73
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    Was NOT a smart move for either of them
    Now they'll be facing more serious charges than the actual BG
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  15. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldskoolfan View Post

    But either way, if you see some guy holding someone else at gunpoint, nobody would stop to help?
    This subject was beat to death several weeks ago.

    No, I will NOT rush in when someone is holding a gun on someone else, because I DON'T know which one is the good guy and which one is the bad guy.

    As the song says "Fools rush in where angels fear to tread."

    I carry to protect myself and my family - no one else. My permit does NOT make me a LEO. I get the impression you don't seem to get that.
    An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life. - Robert A. Heinlein

  16. #75
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    Originally Posted by wmhawth
    Wrong.
    If you saw some guy threatening a woman at the mall with a pistol, you would not intervene or try to help?
    If you are not understanding this by now it would be a waste of time to further try to explain it to you. I suggest you get some more training that would focus on your responsibility and the laws related to licensed concealed carry. People who think as you do make me nervous frankly.

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