Mo Legal clarification question..

Mo Legal clarification question..

This is a discussion on Mo Legal clarification question.. within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Can I carry a handgun that I own in my vehicle without a CCW in Missouri? Also can someone link me to the law where ...

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Thread: Mo Legal clarification question..

  1. #1
    Member Array BrianGarms's Avatar
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    Question Mo Legal clarification question..

    Can I carry a handgun that I own in my vehicle without a CCW in Missouri? Also can someone link me to the law where it states this

    I ask this because my work takes me to areas of St Louis that arent the safest and since I'm only 22, I'm not old enough for a CCW.

    Thanks
    Idealism is what precedes experience; cynicism is what follows.
    - David T. Wolf


  2. #2
    Member Array doctorw's Avatar
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    Try MOCCW - Concealed Carry in Missouri. Here is what their website says:

    Vehicles
    Under the statute the right to carry loaded concealed handguns in one’s home is extended to one’s vehicle. This extended right is confined to persons 21 years old or older who lawfully possesses the firearm. This right only applies to “concealable” firearms (they mean handguns). It does NOT apply to rifles, carbines, or shotguns. It doesn’t have to make sense, it’s just the law.
    The term "lawfully possess" means that the individual can legally own a handgun. Some persons have privately acquired handguns in Missouri without going through Missouri's mandatory, but lightly enforced, purchase permit system (see MISSOURI WEAPONS AND SELF-DEFENSE LAW at page 92). While these handguns have been unlawfully purchased this does not mean that they are unlawfully possessed.
    The handgun may be carried anywhere in the passenger compartment of the vehicle. As in the home, one must be cautious about access by children. People have been charged with endangering the welfare of children by allowing access to guns, and certain prosecutors may take this as a consolation prize.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Array dnowell's Avatar
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    You should apply for a Florida license. You can get one out of state by mail, and it'll allow you to carry in Missouri. Neat trick, eh?

  4. #4
    Member Array BrianGarms's Avatar
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    Do I need to take a test for the FLA license?
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    VIP Member Array nedrgr21's Avatar
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    check out the fl. dept of agriculture website for all the rules for a FL permit. Are you Hunter Ed certified? Word of caution: make damn sure you know and understand the laws about carrying concealed and deadly force. Kevin Jamison (sp) is about the best lawyer in MO concerning the topic - go to his website and you can order a DVD that has a presentation of the laws suitable for a CCW course. Google MO revised statutes 571 for weapons laws for your personal reading. There is no expiration time for courses when it comes to getting a MO license so I suggest you take one - there's no age limit/requirement to attend a course.

    FL training requirements:
    (h) Demonstrates competence with a firearm by any one of the following:

    1. Completion of any hunter education or hunter safety course approved by the Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission or a similar agency of another state;

    2. Completion of any National Rifle Association firearms safety or training course;

    3. Completion of any firearms safety or training course or class available to the general public offered by a law enforcement, junior college, college, or private or public institution or organization or firearms training school, utilizing instructors certified by the National Rifle Association, Criminal Justice Standards and Training Commission, or the Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services;

    4. Completion of any law enforcement firearms safety or training course or class offered for security guards, investigators, special deputies, or any division or subdivision of law enforcement or security enforcement;

    5. Presents evidence of equivalent experience with a firearm through participation in organized shooting competition or military service;

    6. Is licensed or has been licensed to carry a firearm in this state or a county or municipality of this state, unless such license has been revoked for cause; or

    7. Completion of any firearms training or safety course or class conducted by a state-certified or National Rifle Association certified firearms instructor;

    A photocopy of a certificate of completion of any of the courses or classes; or an affidavit from the instructor, school, club, organization, or group that conducted or taught said course or class attesting to the completion of the course or class by the applicant; or a copy of any document which shows completion of the course or class or evidences participation in firearms competition shall constitute evidence of qualification under this paragraph; any person who conducts a course pursuant to subparagraph 2., subparagraph 3., or subparagraph 7., or who, as an instructor, attests to the completion of such courses, must maintain records certifying that he or she observed the student safely handle and discharge the firearm;

  6. #6
    Member Array BrianGarms's Avatar
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    Under the reciprocity section of the Florida Dept of Ag:

    (4) These states will honor the Florida concealed weapon license ONLY IF the licensee is a resident of the State of Florida.
    I'm not sure MO would recognize a MO resident with a FLA license..

    http://licgweb.doacs.state.fl.us/new...led_carry.html
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  7. #7
    VIP Member Array nedrgr21's Avatar
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    There's no (4) after MO on their list. Check MO revised statutes. Once again, read, know and understand the statutes for yourself - the answer is in there.

  8. #8
    Member Array BrianGarms's Avatar
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    I'm aware that there is no (4) next to Missouri, but I was stating that I wasn't sure of whether or not MO will allow a MO resident to carry under a FL license if the person is not a FL resident. I haven't seen that explicitly stated but if it is allowed then I may consider taking my hunter's safety course..
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    Look at the two maps in the upper left for your answers...

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    VIP Member Array cvhoss's Avatar
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    My recollection is that MO residents can carry in MO on an out-of-state non-resident license BUT, I would suggest you contact the AG because even if a MO resident can carry on a non-res license, your age may prevent you from being legal.

    As for car carry, according to Handgunlaw.us, it appears you would be good to go:
    RV/Car Carry Without A Permit/License 571.030.
    1. A person commits the crime of unlawful use of weapons if he or she knowingly:
    (1) Carries concealed upon or about his or her person a knife, a firearm, a blackjack or any other weapon readily capable of lethal use
    (3). Subdivisions (1), (5), (8), and (10) of subsection 1 of this section do not apply when the actor is transporting such weapons in a nonfunctioning state or in an unloaded state when ammunition is not readily accessible or when such weapons are not readily accessible. Subdivision (1) of subsection 1 of this section does not apply to any person twenty-one years of age or older transporting a concealable firearm in the passenger compartment of a motor vehicle, so long as such concealable firearm is otherwise lawfully possessed, nor when the actor is also in possession of an exposed firearm or projectile weapon for the lawful pursuit of game, or is in his or her dwelling unit or upon [business] premises over which the actor has possession, authority or control, or is traveling in a continuous journey peaceably through this state.
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    It is legal for a MO resident to have a Florida CC permit and carry in MO on it. When I was taking my MO class for CC, there was a gentleman too young to qualify for the MO permit and he was getting a FL permit. Our instructor, a LEO, discussed with the class why that was legal due to the reciprocity agreements between the states.

    That said, I still believe it would be beneficial to check with the AG and get clarification, in writing if possible, so you will have some backup if you were to get stopped by any LEO that wasn't clear on the legality/validity of a FL permit and what it allows you to do.

  12. #12
    Distinguished Member Array PastorPack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by doctorw View Post
    Try MOCCW - Concealed Carry in Missouri. Here is what their website says:

    Vehicles
    Under the statute the right to carry loaded concealed handguns in one’s home is extended to one’s vehicle. This extended right is confined to persons 21 years old or older who lawfully possesses the firearm. This right only applies to “concealable” firearms (they mean handguns). It does NOT apply to rifles, carbines, or shotguns. It doesn’t have to make sense, it’s just the law.
    The term "lawfully possess" means that the individual can legally own a handgun. Some persons have privately acquired handguns in Missouri without going through Missouri's mandatory, but lightly enforced, purchase permit system (see MISSOURI WEAPONS AND SELF-DEFENSE LAW at page 92). While these handguns have been unlawfully purchased this does not mean that they are unlawfully possessed.
    The handgun may be carried anywhere in the passenger compartment of the vehicle. As in the home, one must be cautious about access by children. People have been charged with endangering the welfare of children by allowing access to guns, and certain prosecutors may take this as a consolation prize.
    Did you say you were 22? That seems old enough according the above rules.
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  13. #13
    Member Array diverdown247's Avatar
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    Since it appears that everyone is citing outside sources rather than providing the info from the RSMO database, I'll ablidge. Outside sources will not hold up in court...you will need the actual information from the RSMO database. I would suggest that you keep a copy of the applicable section in your vehicle with you if you're non-ccw holder. Someone else posted that you look up 571 and understand it. To take it farther, understand 571 and Federal law (from BATFE site) so you're legal for both. Please note the emboldened, underlined, italicized section that is applicable provided you are not a person designated by law as not allowed to possess a firearm (see BATFE site for that info).

    Chapter 571, under Unlawful Use of Weapons -exceptions-penalties.

    Section 3 states:3. Subdivisions (1), (5), (8), and (10) of subsection 1 of this section do not apply when the actor is transporting such weapons in a nonfunctioning state or in an unloaded state when ammunition is not readily accessible or when such weapons are not readily accessible. Subdivision (1) of subsection 1 of this section does not apply to any person twenty-one years of age or older transporting a concealable firearm in the passenger compartment of a motor vehicle, so long as such concealable firearm is otherwise lawfully possessed, nor when the actor is also in possession of an exposed firearm or projectile weapon for the lawful pursuit of game, or is in his or her dwelling unit or upon premises over which the actor has possession, authority or control, or is traveling in a continuous journey peaceably through this state. Subdivision (10) of subsection 1 of this section does not apply if the firearm is otherwise lawfully possessed by a person while traversing school premises for the purposes of transporting a student to or from school, or possessed by an adult for the purposes of facilitation of a school-sanctioned firearm-related event.

    RSMO571:
    CHAPTER 571

    RSMO search:
    Search

    BATFE firearms section:
    http://www.atf.gov/firearms/index.htm

  14. #14
    Member Array diverdown247's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by punk rocka View Post
    It is legal for a MO resident to have a Florida CC permit and carry in MO on it. When I was taking my MO class for CC, there was a gentleman too young to qualify for the MO permit and he was getting a FL permit. Our instructor, a LEO, discussed with the class why that was legal due to the reciprocity agreements between the states.

    That said, I still believe it would be beneficial to check with the AG and get clarification, in writing if possible, so you will have some backup if you were to get stopped by any LEO that wasn't clear on the legality/validity of a FL permit and what it allows you to do.

    Yes. Missouri provides reciprocity with Florida, both resident and nonresident permits. The MOAGO site is the best source of information on reciprocity for MO (should you need it for legal purposes). Many Mo CCW holders possess multiple permits throughout the US to cover as many states a possible. I have a PA nonresident and MO, have yet to decide on FL nonresident due to the wait with their current demand load.

    Missouri and Federal law will still apply to you regardless of the State of issue, provided MO has reciprocity with that state (recognizes that State's permit).

    If you're stopped in MO, it's best to grant the LEO the courtesy of notifying he/she that you're a permit holder if/when you're in possession of your carry tool. Absolutely never use the word "gun" as it's a panic word for most LEOs.

    A strategy I've used based on my experience as a MP is this:
    LEO stops you and approaches the vehicle window. Keep your hands on the top of the steering wheel (2 and 10 is good). Statement like: (greeting of the day) Officer, before we get into the reason of this stop I just wanted to let you know I am a CCW permit holder...for your safety and mine. This will usually get the LEO to ask you where it is and not to touch it. Simply comply with all instructions and keep your mouth shut at that point.

    Us military folks call this taking all commands from the range tower...and it technically applies for this scenario. Remember, although MO may not have a requirement to disclose, FL may (not sure if it does), but for your own safety it's a good idea to do so. It also shows respect to the officer which can get respect in return.

    Remember your 5th Amendment right at all costs because your conversation is being recorded. And at all costs, never surrender your firearm to a LEO without a property receipt and photographs of the firearm...they tend to return them in damaged condition if they even make it to the property room. Then the fight is on to get it returned to you...which will likely take a court order.

    You'll get some that will want to clear the firearm for their own safety...understandable. How I get around this issue is: Officer, I would gladly allow you to remove my firearm from the vehicle, but for my safety and yours if you do not know how a locked and loaded (brand and model of firearm) works I would request that you please leave it alone.

    Remember LEO habits are to clear the firearm and place it on the roof, hood, or trunk of a car. This scratches your vehcile's paint, can damage the finish or functioning of the firearm if improperly handled, or even dent the body of the vehicle. Often, you can politely request that the officer place the unloaded firearm in the back seat or on the rear floorboard of the vehicle. If you've provided no cause for concern outside the typical traffic stop, he/she might grant that courtesy.

    The smart LEO will take the weapon back to the patrol car. Since LEOs can no longer search the vehcile without your consent, there is no need for them to remove the firearm and granting permission to locate the firearm will be construed as consent to search in some jurisdictions. Once the firearm is removed from your possession, it is a seizure even if it's returned following the stop! The answer/excuse you'll often get is: Your CCW rights are temporarily suspended during a traffic stop, which is not true. There is nothing in the law that states this and it clearly violates your rights. Traffic violations are not "criminal" violations (unless you're committing a Felony traffic violation) and are not allowed to be used as commission of a crime to seize your firearm.

    Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer/attorney and cannot provide legal advice. You utilize information contained within my posts at your own risk and accept the consequences of your own actions.

  15. #15
    Member Array BrianGarms's Avatar
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    So what is the best way to inform an LEO if I get pulled over that:

    1) I am carrying in my car
    2) I do not have a CCW

    Any ideas?
    Idealism is what precedes experience; cynicism is what follows.
    - David T. Wolf

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