Possible CHL voided now?

This is a discussion on Possible CHL voided now? within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by Oldskoolfan I agree. I think that if you are ticketed for speeding you should lose your CCW. Or a parking ticket because ...

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Thread: Possible CHL voided now?

  1. #31
    Member Array Geds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldskoolfan View Post
    I agree.

    I think that if you are ticketed for speeding you should lose your CCW. Or a parking ticket because that is like leaving your 3,000 pound weapon lying around in an unsafe location.

    How many times have you entered a road you've never driven on before and there wasn't a speed limit sign for 15 miles?

    Are you supposed to drive 25 until you see one?

    Everyone makes minor mistakes. What you are suggesting is the same as taking away someone's right to vote for speeding or having a parking ticket. If that was how this country worked, only a handful of people would have any rights.

    You may have a perfect driving record, but you are in the minority. Sometimes you try to follow the law to the best of your abilities but the system works against you.

    I was involved in an interstate pile-up a few years back and was ticketed for failure to show proof of insurance. The judge said I didn't show it, so I was guilty. He did not take into account, even though I told him, that it was in my glovebox....and when the passenger airbag deployed it not only busted out my winshield, but threw my glovebox into the backseat. In the chaos of an interstae pile-up, I could not locate it....it was under the DRIVERS seat. I even took a letter from my insurance company saying I was insured at the time.

    Still got the ticket.

    You can believe what you want, but my opinion is that your assessment that any minor infraction removes your right to carry is way too excessive.

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  3. #32
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    What Retsupt and Jerry M said.

    Better he get weeded out of the pool now then do something stupid with the gun while drunk, later on.

    I guess if he can get his DUI whittled down to a misdemeanor he might some day be able to get his CHL.

    Now, I hope he doesn't turn out to be one of those who think to themselves, "they won't give me the dang CHL, I'll carry anyway." Frogbones, talk to your friend about that.

    Very seriously, in places with 3 strike laws, DUI = 1; carry without a license =2; he could be in big deep doo doo for very many years if something gets thrown in to equal 3. And all for being a bit (well a lot) irresponsible but harming no one.

  4. #33
    VIP Member Array jbum's Avatar
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    Pastor I would like your definition of responsible citizen. Does it mean if I break any law that I lose all my rights or can I break certain laws and still keep my rights. We all know drinking and guns don't mix and drinking and driving don't mix neither does texting and driving. I believe if you commit a felony you should lose all your rights period if you get a misdemeanor with no weapon it's a mute point.

  5. #34
    Ex Member Array Oldskoolfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frogbones View Post
    Thanks for the responses.

    I also feel it's extreme to think one should lose the right to carry for a minor traffic violation. I mean, really.....I'm sure your just "Mr. perfect" on the road....Oldskoolfan.

    Will you take your own gun away from yourself cause you went 1mph over the limit? Next time you go over the speed limit just a tad remember this post you made...... Some people......sheesh.
    I am at the mercy of others as I don't own a car and ride my bike. I live in a college town and use public transportation or cabs. If worse comes to worse I have my friends to help me.

    But my point still stands, that if someone is irresponsible with a car why should it cost them their civil rights? If they are so dangerous shouldn't they be in jail? Or at least lose their drivers license?

    Sorry but one does not necessarily have anything to do with the other. And as someone pointed out that if the car is a 3,000 pound weapon which can be left in an inappropriate place should we ticket people and fine them when they leave their weapon in a place deemed inappropriate? Like a car that is parked in a handicap spot with no sticker or handicap tags?

  6. #35
    Senior Member Array JJVP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frogbones View Post
    A buddy of mine of 15+yrs was getting all the paper work ready and class setup for his CHL when just the other night (to my disappointment) got arrested for DWI. UUGH what a dumb .


    So now he has to fork over several grand for a lawyer and have all this sorted out.

    My question is...does this screw with his ability to get a CHL?

    I think it would, but not sure....Kinda makes me second guess his responsibility for having such a permit. I WAS going to pitch in with him for a handgun....but now I'm just upset with his poor choice of behavior I 'm not sure I want to contribute....I'm kinda put out with him and I let him know it too.

    Even before I got my CHL I stopped all that kind of nonsense. I never drink and drive...heck I don't like drinking any kind of drink..don't like to eat..and really hate talking on the phone....I just like to drive and get where I'm going....mainly cause I drive a standard.

    I'd get harassed jokingly by my buddies on how "uptight"
    "paranoid" etc etc. I've gotten since I've have picked up the seriousness in CC...you know the backing off the drinks (beers) to no almost nothing (like one beer heh) when out while carrying or had the gun in the car, stopped with the quick snippy mouth to strangers, eased up on the driving...just practicing avoidance to confrontations and other things that come along with carrying a firearm. You know, practicing the law abiding and "model citizen" thingy.... to me now that's more a kick than drinking and such. Just kinda wish they get that way....maybe they will learn through my example.....ahahahah don't think so.

    Uugh just kinda pissed me off that he pulled such a shananigun .

    Anyhoo so...Does this ruin his chance to get a CHL in TX?
    Yes it does.

    From the DPS site:

    Q: If I was convicted of a misdemeanor offense two years ago, can I
    still get a concealed handgun license?

    A: No. Let's take DWI as an example. DWI (first offense) is a Class
    B misdemeanor, and a person is not eligible for a license for five years
    after a conviction for a Class A or Class B misdemeanor or for the
    offense of disorderly conduct. A 'conviction" includes cases that were
    dismissed after you completed probation or deferred adjudication. If
    you have been convicted of two or more alcohol or drug-related
    misdemeanor offenses within the last 10 years, you may not be
    eligible.

    http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/ftp/for...16.pdf#page=71

  7. #36
    Ex Member Array Oldskoolfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geds View Post
    How many times have you entered a road you've never driven on before and there wasn't a speed limit sign for 15 miles?

    Are you supposed to drive 25 until you see one?

    Everyone makes minor mistakes. What you are suggesting is the same as taking away someone's right to vote for speeding or having a parking ticket. If that was how this country worked, only a handful of people would have any rights.

    You may have a perfect driving record, but you are in the minority. Sometimes you try to follow the law to the best of your abilities but the system works against you.

    I was involved in an interstate pile-up a few years back and was ticketed for failure to show proof of insurance. The judge said I didn't show it, so I was guilty. He did not take into account, even though I told him, that it was in my glovebox....and when the passenger airbag deployed it not only busted out my winshield, but threw my glovebox into the backseat. In the chaos of an interstae pile-up, I could not locate it....it was under the DRIVERS seat. I even took a letter from my insurance company saying I was insured at the time.

    Still got the ticket.

    You can believe what you want, but my opinion is that your assessment that any minor infraction removes your right to carry is way too excessive.
    Just because there is no sign for miles doesn't mean that we can break the law. Sorry but you should not break the law because it is inconvenient for you to follow the law. I don't like drug laws but I follow them. So to answer your question, yes you are to drive until 25 MPH until you see a new speed limit posted.

    Define a minor infraction. Some people lose their lives due to people speeding through work zones and in accidents where if people followed the posted limit it would be a great deal less severe. Do we tell those who died because someone didn't feel the 25 MPH limit was convenient that it is only a minor infraction. How is this any different than DUI? You are knowingly increasing the risk to others by doing either.

  8. #37
    VIP Member Array jbum's Avatar
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    Ditto Oldskoolfan!! Now all we gotta do is figure out which one of these infractions will cause you to lose your rights.

  9. #38
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldskoolfan View Post
    Just because there is no sign for miles doesn't mean that we can break the law. Sorry but you should not break the law because it is inconvenient for you to follow the law. I don't like drug laws but I follow them. So to answer your question, yes you are to drive until 25 MPH until you see a new speed limit posted.

    Define a minor infraction. Some people lose their lives due to people speeding through work zones and in accidents where if people followed the posted limit it would be a great deal less severe. Do we tell those who died because someone didn't feel the 25 MPH limit was convenient that it is only a minor infraction. How is this any different than DUI? You are knowingly increasing the risk to others by doing either.
    Kinda hard to break any speed limits on a bicycle,so I guess if you drive less than the speed limit and become a traffic hazard you should be ticketed just like the person that speeds,
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

  10. #39
    Senior Member Array stanislaskasava's Avatar
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    Off topic: Why would you even consider 'pitching in' for this guy's handgun when he obviously has money to blow? Somehow I doubt he was at an office party with an open bar. He sounds like the kind of guy that is 'a little short' at the end of every month and borrows cash from his more responsible friends. If he is so irresponsible, let any weapon purchases be on his hands, unless there is something you haven't told us. He needs to GT_U and get a clue. If you care about the guy, stop enabling him to be such a loser.

    ETA: Wait, you said 'fork over several grand' for an attorney? I repeat, why would you pitch in?

  11. #40
    Member Array LM2024's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldskoolfan View Post
    Just because there is no sign for miles doesn't mean that we can break the law. Sorry but you should not break the law because it is inconvenient for you to follow the law. I don't like drug laws but I follow them. So to answer your question, yes you are to drive until 25 MPH until you see a new speed limit posted.
    That's called integrity. Doing the right thing even when no one is looking.

  12. #41
    VIP Member Array varob's Avatar
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    To the OP. There is nothing wrong with being a responsible person. And only you can decide what that means.

    As for your friend. It sounds like you invested a lot of time, effort, and even were willing to invest money in this person, and he let you down by making a bad choice.

    Perhaps he wasn't ready for CC at this point in his life.
    Don't believe what you hear and only half of what you see!
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  13. #42
    VIP Member Array Pikachu711's Avatar
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    This reminds me of something I read on the application for my CC permit here in NV. I am required to notify the local LE if I'm arrested & charged with a crime. Based upon the severity of the "allegation" the state of Nevada may suspend my carry permit until the case is ajudicated. This is one more responsibility of holding a CC permit. I never imagined the standards I would have to uphold once the state approved my carry permit.
    "Gun control is being able to hit your target."
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  14. #43
    Member Array Geds's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldskoolfan View Post
    Just because there is no sign for miles doesn't mean that we can break the law. Sorry but you should not break the law because it is inconvenient for you to follow the law. I don't like drug laws but I follow them. So to answer your question, yes you are to drive until 25 MPH until you see a new speed limit posted.

    Define a minor infraction. Some people lose their lives due to people speeding through work zones and in accidents where if people followed the posted limit it would be a great deal less severe. Do we tell those who died because someone didn't feel the 25 MPH limit was convenient that it is only a minor infraction. How is this any different than DUI? You are knowingly increasing the risk to others by doing either.
    Blew off the rest of my point, I see.
    ok, maybe the system never has failed you before.

    But, since I don't lose ANY OTHER ammendment rights when I get a speeding ticket, Why should I lose my 2nd?

    I am not IMPRISONED for speeding, I am given a ticket. THAT means the SYSTEM has determined it is a MINOR INFRACTION.

    YOU have determined that it might be more than that, but if it were more than a minor infraction in the law, then I would be incarcerated when caught doing it.

    You believe in the law so much? Well, the law says you don't lose your concealed carry permit because you parked your car in front of a fire hydrant or drove 35 in a 30 zone.

    So, your assessment is still ridiculous until they CHANGE THE LAW.
    And since most of us drive, and have driven over the speed limit, I feel you'll be alone in trying to get that changed.


    now, excuse me, I'm late for work.

  15. #44
    VIP Member Array grady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldskoolfan View Post
    I think that if you are ticketed for speeding you should lose your CCW. Or a parking ticket because that is like leaving your 3,000 pound weapon lying around in an unsafe location.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oldskoolfan View Post
    I am at the mercy of others as I don't own a car and ride my bike.
    Well, that explains why you are so tough on those who drive cars.

    As the upstanding citizen I'm sure you are, the next time you roll through a stop sign on your bike, or park it in an area you shouldn't, I expect you will surrender all the guns you own to the police, since, after all, if you can't follow some laws, then you can't be trusted to follow other laws.

    Rolling through a stop sign, even on a bike, could cause a car accident which could hurt or kill others, so according to your logic, you'll need to get rid of all your guns immediately the next time you roll through... and if you've ever rolled through a stop sign in the past, then you need to turn your guns in now. Unless, of course, you have different standards for yourself than those you place on others.

    The Missouri Legislature, and probably every other legislature in the 48 free states, would find your opinion on confiscating CCW's over a speeding ticket or a parking ticket laughable.

    You're entitled to your opinion. Thank God no one in the Missouri Legislature gives such an opinion any credence.

    The day our government tries to pull off such a stunt will be a day that will go down in history.

  16. #45
    Distinguished Member Array PastorPack's Avatar
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    Defining "Responsible"

    Quote Originally Posted by jbum View Post
    Pastor I would like your definition of responsible citizen. Does it mean if I break any law that I lose all my rights or can I break certain laws and still keep my rights. We all know drinking and guns don't mix and drinking and driving don't mix neither does texting and driving. I believe if you commit a felony you should lose all your rights period if you get a misdemeanor with no weapon it's a mute point.
    jbum,

    Sure thing: I would define a responsible citizen as someone who is able to generally able choose for oneself between right and wrong and who is able to answer for one's conduct. Let me be clear, I don't walk on water, but don't we as CCers have a certain ethic of being law-abiding folks who strive to be above-board in our lives?

    I think that someone who arrives at a blood alcohol level above the legal limit and then proceeds to operate a vehicle is not being responsible, shown most clearly by their inability to judge if they've had too much to drink.

    I did not state that I thought he should lose all rights, but if he is found guilty of DUI, he will certainly lose some rights, at least temporarily. And that is as it should be. That may be an opportunity for him to learn and strive to change his behavior in the future.

    The OP stated:
    Kinda makes me second guess his responsibility for having such a permit. I WAS going to pitch in with him for a handgun....but now I'm just upset with his poor choice of behavior I 'm not sure I want to contribute....
    so I was really just bouncing off of that. However, jbum, if you want to offer a different point of view, perhaps you can explain how Driving Under the Influence is responsible.
    God is love (1 John 4:8)

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