How to talk to pastor

This is a discussion on How to talk to pastor within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by miklcolt45 . Once you get some idea about where he stands, you might be able to talk further, even take him to ...

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Thread: How to talk to pastor

  1. #16
    Distinguished Member Array pcon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by miklcolt45 View Post
    . Once you get some idea about where he stands, you might be able to talk further, even take him to the range.
    Heck...I took mine to the range! He loved it!
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  3. #17
    VIP Member Array nedrgr21's Avatar
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    Yup, even the Chief of Police I know had to ask.

    Make sure you explain any training you've had. If he says no, you could always take a Sunday or two to explore other churches.

  4. #18
    Distinguished Member Array PastorPack's Avatar
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    I'd say work it in easy to guage his reaction. Maybe in addition to talking about forming a security team, you could ask him what he thinks of the people carrying at the recent town hall meetings.

    Just a thought. If he is interested in knowing a pastor's perspective, feel free to send him my way.
    God is love (1 John 4:8)

  5. #19
    Member Array doctorw's Avatar
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    I am a pastor in Missouri. My church has a security team and I carry as well. My suggestion is to talk to him like he is a human being with common sense and reason. More than likely he will favor having a security team. He may not know that it is legal for people to carry in church with his permission (in Missouri).

    As far as insurance liability, it is not true that your church will only be free of liability if you take no security measures. You should get rid of your fire extinguishers if you believe that. If something happens, your insurance will have to kick in one way or the other.

    The big thing to me is that members do not see guns. A lot of people are scared of guns. I would say is that if someone carried without permission, I would only be upset if they brandished their weapon and caused alarm. Otherwise, out of sight, out of mind.

    If he tells you that you may not carry, explain to him your unwillingness to worship in a church where you are not protected. Don't just leave without giving him the opportunity to reconsider his position. You may end up saving lives.

  6. #20
    Distinguished Member Array phreddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jhh3rd View Post
    I would tend to think a Church may have huge liability concerns with a sanctioned volunteer (armed) security team. I noticed one of the large churches in my neighborhood used to have members escort people across the street from an adjacent parking lot. Now they use an off duty City Police Officer. I see him patrolling the grounds on sundays and wednesdays. Once the insurance folks get involved these issues can evolve.
    We are trying to increase security at our church by creating a security team, but the insurance company wants to increase our rates greatly if we authorize or allow anyone to carry. We have not been able to find a solution that we can(or will) afford, yet.

  7. #21
    Distinguished Member Array phreddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mkh View Post
    You are right tha insurance companies can thrrow a monkey wrench into just about anything.

    The idea is not to have an armed security team but a security teamed that just happens to have CCWs.
    That doesn't work in SC because we have to have explicit approval from the governing board of the church to be able to legally carry.

  8. #22
    Member Array jjkjr's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phreddy View Post
    We are trying to increase security at our church by creating a security team, but the insurance company wants to increase our rates greatly if we authorize or allow anyone to carry. We have not been able to find a solution that we can(or will) afford, yet.
    there could be a liability if you dont protect.......
    if i'm not mistaken if it caught on fire, one was hurt in the fire they would liable.
    if something happens to one of your kids they are liable. (thats the reason a lot of churches are having the nursery and children workers a back ground check)

    the thing that alot of people dont understand...... is that, those of us with CCW we have taken the time to do the schooling, be qualified, and we are not just toating ........ WE are QUALIFIED. and have had a background check...
    Those of us it wouldnt be to smart to do somethiing stupid, due to we have to much information on file, we could be found easier than the crooks.. JMHO
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  9. #23
    Senior Member Array Keltyke's Avatar
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    I'm a little confused...
    I know it's a federal law you must secure permission before you carry into a church, but in MS, is it a state law that you have to talk to your pastor just to obtain your carry permit?

  10. #24
    Member Array theotherlis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keltyke View Post
    I'm a little confused...
    I know it's a federal law you must secure permission before you carry into a church, but in MS, is it a state law that you have to talk to your pastor just to obtain your carry permit?
    No.. You have to talk to your pastor before you may carry a firearm into the church.

  11. #25
    Distinguished Member Array MinistrMalic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by miklcolt45 View Post
    As a pastor, I would say your best bet, until you know his stance, is to ask him if there had been any thought about putting together a security and safety team. They would deal with everything from how to respond to a fire, tornado, child custody dispute on church grounds, to active shooter, etc. You might even add something along the lines of, "With all that's going on in our world, I am concerned for your safety, as well as the safety of the rest of the congregation."

    See what he says. Once you get some idea about where he stands, you might be able to talk further, even take him to the range.

    If he is interested, you are on your way. If not, you can do what you're doing now-not carrying.

    ETA: Your denomination/affiliation may make a huge difference in the likelihood of his response. Some more liberal denominations would probably have a hissy fit (like mine, for instance), if they knew. Others, not as much.
    +1. As a pastor, this is good advice. You may even find out he carries!

    One other thing. Don't assume that just because he is a pastor that he is anti-gun. Look on the forum and you will find a lot of us shepherds are also sheepdogs.

    Don't go in on the defensive, apprehensive, or scared. Tell him your concerns about safety, from medical emergencies to active shooters to a missing child on the grounds. Then go from there. Trust me, if he hasn't thought about security he needs to, and no pastor I know is against someone volunteering to take care of an issue for him.
    "...whoever has no sword is to sell his coat and buy one." (Luke 22:36)
    Christianity and Self Defense from a Biblical Perspective

  12. #26
    Distinguished Member Array MinistrMalic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keltyke View Post
    I'm a little confused...
    I know it's a federal law you must secure permission before you carry into a church, but in MS, is it a state law that you have to talk to your pastor just to obtain your carry permit?
    This is not true. There are no federal laws on the books that state anyone must ask permission before carrying in church. Here in AZ it is perfectly legal without permission.
    "...whoever has no sword is to sell his coat and buy one." (Luke 22:36)
    Christianity and Self Defense from a Biblical Perspective

  13. #27
    VIP Member Array Majorlk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keltyke View Post
    I'm a little confused...
    I know it's a federal law you must secure permission before you carry into a church,
    There is no such federal law. Some states have that provision, though.
    An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life. - Robert A. Heinlein

  14. #28
    Member Array swbkb8's Avatar
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    I've started to put together a small presentation of what you all have done as far as a "safety/safety team." The more I thought about it, the more I realize we haven't even thought about those types of situations. I called my dad who goes to the same church and asked him where he would go in case of a tornado. He wasn't sure even though he has been going there for 15 years.

    I don't necessarily think the pastor is anti gun. He just may be afraid of what others would say if they found out someone was carrying (its a very touchy huggy group).

    Sorry Keltyke, I didn't write that correctly. You have to have the pastor's permission before carrying into church. The nice thing about Missouri is that none of the "gun-free areas" aka kill zones carry any weight except for federal property. All they can do is ask you to leave and if you refuse, you get the trespassing ticket.

    Again, thanks everyone for the ideas. What started with just figuring out how to ask him about carrying has turned into a way we can fulfill a need that has become pretty obvious.

  15. #29
    Member Array faithmyeyes's Avatar
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    I initially opted not to tell my pastor, since I live in a state where it's not required for me to do so. It really had nothing to do with my trust in him nor any fear of his reaction, though.

    A former member who had carried kind of wanted everyone to know it... he carried a large auto and mag pouches under only the most minimal of concealment garments, essentially taking the William Kostric pro-gun stance while walking around church. This made people uncomfortable and it was generally felt that he was pushing the gun issue in an inappropriate venue. When I began carrying, I felt the best way not to make an issue of it was, literally, not to make an issue of it... which meant I didn't feel any need to have a special conversation with my pastor about it.

    I changed my mind when I became aware that he might have found out I carried through someone else (which is a different story). I wanted to at least have him hear it from me and give him the opportunity to say anything he wanted to say without having to "confront" me. I just told him I typically went armed, and my basic reasoning behind it. I didn't feel like I needed to quote statistics or anything, or play the "I'm protecting the church" angle. He thanked me for my discretion so as not to distract others in the congregation, supported my motivation to protect my family, and we went on to have a nice lunch and talk about other things.

    Obviously, it depends on your pastor's mindset... but talking with him shouldn't have to be any big deal, and you shouldn't really have to justify yourself beyond simple terms. Of course, who you are and what your attitude is makes a difference, too.

    Stay safe and good luck
    fme

  16. #30
    Member Array Grantspastor's Avatar
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    I'm a Pastor, and I carry. If I knew you, and you were a part of the congregation, I would have no problem if you carry in Church. I don't even care if you inform me or not. The only concern I have is not everyone in the congregation understands. I don't want to lose members because someone insists on flaunting their 2A rights. Keep it concealed. People who fail to grasp this concept usually have an agenda they are promoting that goes beyond self-protection and
    2A, and typically are not there for the long haul anyway.

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