This is a discussion on How to talk to pastor within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; Originally Posted by miklcolt45 . Once you get some idea about where he stands, you might be able to talk further, even take him to ...
Yup, even the Chief of Police I know had to ask.
Make sure you explain any training you've had. If he says no, you could always take a Sunday or two to explore other churches.
I'd say work it in easy to guage his reaction. Maybe in addition to talking about forming a security team, you could ask him what he thinks of the people carrying at the recent town hall meetings.
Just a thought. If he is interested in knowing a pastor's perspective, feel free to send him my way.
God is love (1 John 4:8)
I am a pastor in Missouri. My church has a security team and I carry as well. My suggestion is to talk to him like he is a human being with common sense and reason. More than likely he will favor having a security team. He may not know that it is legal for people to carry in church with his permission (in Missouri).
As far as insurance liability, it is not true that your church will only be free of liability if you take no security measures. You should get rid of your fire extinguishers if you believe that. If something happens, your insurance will have to kick in one way or the other.
The big thing to me is that members do not see guns. A lot of people are scared of guns. I would say is that if someone carried without permission, I would only be upset if they brandished their weapon and caused alarm. Otherwise, out of sight, out of mind.
If he tells you that you may not carry, explain to him your unwillingness to worship in a church where you are not protected. Don't just leave without giving him the opportunity to reconsider his position. You may end up saving lives.
if i'm not mistaken if it caught on fire, one was hurt in the fire they would liable.
if something happens to one of your kids they are liable. (thats the reason a lot of churches are having the nursery and children workers a back ground check)
the thing that alot of people dont understand...... is that, those of us with CCW we have taken the time to do the schooling, be qualified, and we are not just toating ........ WE are QUALIFIED. and have had a background check...
Those of us it wouldnt be to smart to do somethiing stupid, due to we have to much information on file, we could be found easier than the crooks.. JMHO
Ruger LCP 380
NAA 22 mini mag w/holster grip
S&W 38 model 10
I'm a little confused...
I know it's a federal law you must secure permission before you carry into a church, but in MS, is it a state law that you have to talk to your pastor just to obtain your carry permit?
One other thing. Don't assume that just because he is a pastor that he is anti-gun. Look on the forum and you will find a lot of us shepherds are also sheepdogs.
Don't go in on the defensive, apprehensive, or scared. Tell him your concerns about safety, from medical emergencies to active shooters to a missing child on the grounds. Then go from there. Trust me, if he hasn't thought about security he needs to, and no pastor I know is against someone volunteering to take care of an issue for him.
I've started to put together a small presentation of what you all have done as far as a "safety/safety team." The more I thought about it, the more I realize we haven't even thought about those types of situations. I called my dad who goes to the same church and asked him where he would go in case of a tornado. He wasn't sure even though he has been going there for 15 years.
I don't necessarily think the pastor is anti gun. He just may be afraid of what others would say if they found out someone was carrying (its a very touchy huggy group).
Sorry Keltyke, I didn't write that correctly. You have to have the pastor's permission before carrying into church. The nice thing about Missouri is that none of the "gun-free areas" aka kill zones carry any weight except for federal property. All they can do is ask you to leave and if you refuse, you get the trespassing ticket.
Again, thanks everyone for the ideas. What started with just figuring out how to ask him about carrying has turned into a way we can fulfill a need that has become pretty obvious.
I initially opted not to tell my pastor, since I live in a state where it's not required for me to do so. It really had nothing to do with my trust in him nor any fear of his reaction, though.
A former member who had carried kind of wanted everyone to know it... he carried a large auto and mag pouches under only the most minimal of concealment garments, essentially taking the William Kostric pro-gun stance while walking around church. This made people uncomfortable and it was generally felt that he was pushing the gun issue in an inappropriate venue. When I began carrying, I felt the best way not to make an issue of it was, literally, not to make an issue of it... which meant I didn't feel any need to have a special conversation with my pastor about it.
I changed my mind when I became aware that he might have found out I carried through someone else (which is a different story). I wanted to at least have him hear it from me and give him the opportunity to say anything he wanted to say without having to "confront" me. I just told him I typically went armed, and my basic reasoning behind it. I didn't feel like I needed to quote statistics or anything, or play the "I'm protecting the church" angle. He thanked me for my discretion so as not to distract others in the congregation, supported my motivation to protect my family, and we went on to have a nice lunch and talk about other things.
Obviously, it depends on your pastor's mindset... but talking with him shouldn't have to be any big deal, and you shouldn't really have to justify yourself beyond simple terms. Of course, who you are and what your attitude is makes a difference, too.
Stay safe and good luck
I'm a Pastor, and I carry. If I knew you, and you were a part of the congregation, I would have no problem if you carry in Church. I don't even care if you inform me or not. The only concern I have is not everyone in the congregation understands. I don't want to lose members because someone insists on flaunting their 2A rights. Keep it concealed. People who fail to grasp this concept usually have an agenda they are promoting that goes beyond self-protection and
2A, and typically are not there for the long haul anyway.