How to talk to pastor

This is a discussion on How to talk to pastor within the Concealed Carry Issues & Discussions forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I'm teaching my pastor how to shoot and giving him a S&W Model 15-3 that I had reworked by Smith and Wesson. He will be ...

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Thread: How to talk to pastor

  1. #46
    Member Array chiefrcd's Avatar
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    I'm teaching my pastor how to shoot and giving him a S&W Model 15-3 that I had reworked by Smith and Wesson. He will be getting his carry license soon. That's one way to talk to him.
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  3. #47
    Member Array swbkb8's Avatar
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    Well, I ended up talking to him about both the CCW and the security team. He turns out to be a very pro 2A person. He is worried though that the head office will more than just frown. I'm not sure if he is going to talk to them or make a decision himself. He said he would think about it but he also said "I firmly believe each individual has the right to protect himself." So that was good at least. He loved the idea of the security team. He wanted me to start on that immediately.

    So thanks for the help all. I will just see where he ends up next week and go from there.

  4. #48
    Distinguished Member Array JerryM's Avatar
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    Hi Boze,
    Quote
    Some of the Deacons have been hesitant saying the "shooting were because of bad feelings or some other premeditation"! End Quote

    While there is a lot truth to that, who knows in any church and especially a large one, how many "bad feelings" exist?
    No one knows whether or not some estranged husband/boyfriend is going off the deep end.

    Accordingly, although the odds of your church being attacked are very small, that reason is not a good one not to establish some sort of plan.

    If you the pastor can keep track of such bad feelings it helps, but no one can predict or know for sure what is going on in any of the peoples lives.

    One service a couple of years ago there was a lady who brought her son, who did not want to be there. He came in wearing a cap and hooded sweatshirt over it. The pastor told him to remove it, and after a few words the young man left.

    I talked to the pastor and suggested that I sit for the next couple of weeks where I could observe the parking lot in case the boy returned to get even. I did so, but he never returned. But who could predict what he would do in light of all the school shootings, and some church shootings. There are too many copycats around.

    We have no formal plan, but a couple of us carry and sit where we can respond if necessary. We only run around 120-150 at the morning service, but do have the bases pretty well covered with our informal, unofficial plans.
    It does bear consideration in any size church.

    Regards,
    Jerry

  5. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by JerryM View Post
    If you the pastor can keep track of such bad feelings it helps, but no one can predict or know for sure what is going on in any of the peoples lives.
    Jerry, you are so right, as a former pastor, I know I found out about things way later than I would of like too in my congregations life. Shoot, some church members will not tell you if they go to the hospital and then get mad that the pastor and no one from church came to visit them while they were there!! I have had people going through divorces in a church and not know till it hit the paper or some one else said "Did you know that **** was getting divorced?" I am either not observant or not in the right place at the right time!!

  6. #50
    Distinguished Member Array Gideon's Avatar
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    I just finished pastoring a church for the past 9 years. In my opinion there is only one way to approach the man of God regardless of the subject. Do it privately, w/respect and humility. Be direct. If you want to ask permission to carry, tell him that first and then explain why. Don't beat around the bush and don't go the route of asking what he thinks about a security team to "feel" him out on the subject. Just put is simply what you want and how you feel. At that point he's either going to be fine with it, or he's going to think/pray about it and get back to you, or he's going to ask you more about it.

    When I was a Pastor I carried but I can't begin to say how important it was to me that no one knew. No matter what our rights are, it is never okay for a Christian to exercise their rights if it puts a stumbling block in front of another Christian. Now the application of this great truth can be difficult. Some of my congregation would have been mortified to learn their pastor carried and some may have left the church over it. In the Church there are far greater dangers and issues than my right to carry, however, I make the choice and was absolutely dedicated to utter concealment.

    If a member of my congregation ever asked me (only one ever did) I would permit it based on their testimoney, i.e., what I'd seen of their wisdom, judgement and spirituality. I'm not as concerned about them carrying as I am about how careful they'll be NEVER to reveal it or about how well they would decided if it was appropriate to use it and how well they might used it if need be.

    I like this post: "I'm a Pastor, and I carry. If I knew you, and you were a part of the congregation, I would have no problem if you carry in Church. I don't even care if you inform me or not. The only concern I have is not everyone in the congregation understands. I don't want to lose members because someone insists on flaunting their 2A rights. Keep it concealed. People who fail to grasp this concept usually have an agenda they are promoting that goes beyond self-protection and
    2A, and typically are not there for the long haul anyway."

    I pastored a small country church and therefore my liability issues were less complex than some others who pastor larger more urban churches. Frankly I feel for them and you should all appreciate your pastors because they walk a tough line between looking out for the christian while protecting the saved from carnal Christians and lost folks in the church!

    Just ask him; invite him out to lunch (and pick up the tab) and ask him.

    And above all else....respect his answer and submit to it.

  7. #51
    VIP Member Array miklcolt45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swbkb8 View Post
    Well, I ended up talking to him about both the CCW and the security team. He turns out to be a very pro 2A person. He is worried though that the head office will more than just frown. I'm not sure if he is going to talk to them or make a decision himself. He said he would think about it but he also said "I firmly believe each individual has the right to protect himself." So that was good at least. He loved the idea of the security team. He wanted me to start on that immediately.

    So thanks for the help all. I will just see where he ends up next week and go from there.
    swbkb8,

    Glad it went well. Now, go forth and secure-a-team for security.
    Actually, everyone who cares about your church should do this.
    And don't just look at gun issues. Tornadoes, fire, bomb threats, child custody disputes, sexual abuse and on and on...some of which are not only more possible, but down right likely to happen at some point in the near future.

    Begin putting some thoughts together on threats which could devastate your church, and act. Find some others who don't want to see the church burned, sued or on the news for negative reasons.

    You don't have to leave out active shooter scenarios and responses, but there are other far more likely threats which can cause as much pain.
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose. - Jim Elliott

    The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it.
    Albert Einstein

  8. #52
    VIP Member Array Majorlk's Avatar
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    Associated Press
    Monday, August 24, 2009

    ANADARKO, Okla. A pastor in southwest Oklahoma was killed and her body was found inside her church, but authorities had few leads in the investigation, officials said.

    The body of Carol Daniels was found Sunday inside the Christ Holy Sanctified Church in Anadarko. The small A-frame building sits along a main road in the Caddo County town of about 6,600 people, which is about 60 miles southwest of Oklahoma City.

    Oklahoma State Bureau of Investigation spokeswoman Jessica Brown said Daniels had trauma to her body, but officials did not disclose details about the killing, including how, when or where she died.

    Investigators said they have no suspects in Daniels' death and few leads to follow. Officials on Sunday spoke with several people who gathered around the building after word about the slaying spread. Many of them wept and hugged each other.

    Brown said Daniels, who was in her mid-50s, lived in Oklahoma City and drove to the church each Sunday for services.

    Mitchell Pendarvis, who lives next door to the church, was surprised to hear about the killing.

    "I don't know what to think and I'm trying to think," Pendarvis said. "I mean, who would do this to this woman?"
    An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life. - Robert A. Heinlein

  9. #53
    VIP Member Array Majorlk's Avatar
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    Story Update ...

    Prosecutor: Oklahoma Church Crime Scene Was 'Horrific' - Local News | News Articles | National News | US News - FOXNews.com

    Quote from the article:

    "Pastor Steve Palczynsky of the Cedar Hill Church of God in Anadarko said lack of official word is disconcerting and that he's taken extra steps to make sure his church is secure."

    I wonder what steps ...
    An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life. - Robert A. Heinlein

  10. #54
    Senior Member Array FlyboyLDB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adaman04 View Post
    ........Unless you are made and asked to leave and then you REFUSE to leave, you are fine. I didn't understand it that way until recently.
    You better consult an attorney before buying that. I would also consult the local DA's office and get an opinion if you can.

    Generally, if you know the rules to enter the premises, then you are trespassing at that point. If that is the case, you can be arrested and charged. Forget all those magic loop holes people conjure up. They could cost you in many ways.

  11. #55
    Member Array swbkb8's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Update

    Well, its been a few weeks since I had asked this question. Well, I have a quick update for you all. Tonight, we had a church get together and I got into a conversation with a +2A friend who was on the subject of CCW.
    While I was really hesitating to bring it up, I decided to tell him that I had my CCW. Well, this conversation ended up getting the other pastor (not the first one I talked to) involved in it. It went something like this.

    Friend: Ya, we (his son and him) need to get our CCW. You know Steve already has his? (yes I need to smack him around for telling someone else)
    Pastor: Really?
    Me: Yes I carry it everywhere for the most part.
    Pastor: You carry it at church?
    Me: Nope
    Pastor: Well why not? (with a puzzled look)

    Not only was he for the idea he thought it was silly not to. He pretty much brought up a lot of the same arguments that have been brought up here. Close to: In a worse case scenario, we are SOL.
    So not only has he said go ahead and bring but get the security team figured out and a list of canidates together.

    So all in all it was a great night. Now I just need to make sure they keep it quiet.

  12. #56
    VIP Member Array miklcolt45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swbkb8 View Post
    So all in all it was a great night. Now I just need to make sure they keep it quiet.
    Uh huh, quiet...in church.

    Fat chance.
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose. - Jim Elliott

    The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it.
    Albert Einstein

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